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Old 26 Aug 2019, 14:46 (Ref:3924226)   #16
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Haas did well buying from Furrari so hopefurry these new cats can do the same.
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 14:50 (Ref:3924227)   #17
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Putting aside all of the cat jokes...

They say they are looking to do the "Haas model". Which is some of the components in which the team does not need to own the IP sourced from an existing F1 team (suspension from Ferrari) and for the components in which they will own the IP (tub by Dallara, but Haas owning IP).

Who might PTA partner with? Beyond the technical names, the company seems to be Benjamin Durand (SMP Racing/BR Engineering) and Michel Orts (Ex GT driver from a decade ago).

What are their links...

1. As OP says... Both are French. Renault?
2. Given the SMP Racing backgroud. Someone in Russia?
3. Given the name. Someone in Asia?

As mentioned above... I find the idea of getting an entry and then selling it intriguing.

Richard
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 15:04 (Ref:3924229)   #18
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with Racing point potentially aligning itself closer with Merc and Ferrari associated with Haas and Alfa, it seems both fair and prudent for the next customer team to explicitly align with Renault.

just speculating, but i would think FOM/FIA wouldnt want too many teams dependent on one manufacturer...both as a way of balancing out the voting blocs and as a hedge against a manu leaving.

i suppose we should also not exclude the possibility that Renault might find themselves in a situation where they are looking to offload their race team again and go back to being an engine manu.
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:08 (Ref:3924248)   #19
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Iím just thinking we have four engine manufacturers in Merc, Ferrari, Renault and Honda

Merc have got three teams with the works team, Racing Point and Williams

Ferrari have three with their own works team, Haas and Alfa

Renault have two with their own works team and McLaren

Honda have two with both Red Bull teams

So yes it would make sense for Panther to become a Renault customer
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:10 (Ref:3924249)   #20
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Iím just thinking we have four engine manufacturers in Merc, Ferrari, Renault and Honda

Merc have got three teams with the works team, Racing Point and Williams

Ferrari have three with their own works team, Haas and Alfa

Renault have two with their own works team and McLaren

Honda have two with both Red Bull teams

So yes it would make sense for Panther to become a Renault customer
Why not a Honda customer?
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:13 (Ref:3924250)   #21
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Why not a Honda customer?


Not sure Red Bull would necessarily want that
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:31 (Ref:3924254)   #22
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Why would Red Bull not like that?

1. It's unlikely they would be a threat on track.
2. I think Honda could provide three teams from an infrastructure perspective
3. More teams running the engine provides more data for long term reliability (and where they can push reliability to extract more performance). I think part of the advantage Mercedes has is that they have a ton of data on the longevity of various bits in the engine. And in what scenarios they can push the performance without it impacting reliability to the point that they run into power unit component allocation issues.

Isn't there a rule that limits the number of teams for a single provider? Is Mercedes and Ferrari at that limit now? Would it have to be Renault or Honda?

Richard
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:50 (Ref:3924257)   #23
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Why would Red Bull not like that?

1. It's unlikely they would be a threat on track.
2. I think Honda could provide three teams from an infrastructure perspective
3. More teams running the engine provides more data for long term reliability (and where they can push reliability to extract more performance). I think part of the advantage Mercedes has is that they have a ton of data on the longevity of various bits in the engine. And in what scenarios they can push the performance without it impacting reliability to the point that they run into power unit component allocation issues.

Isn't there a rule that limits the number of teams for a single provider? Is Mercedes and Ferrari at that limit now? Would it have to be Renault or Honda?

Richard
This article outlines the engine rules regarding manufacturers and supplying teams, as of 2017.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12...o-supply-teams
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 18:57 (Ref:3924258)   #24
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Not sure Red Bull would necessarily want that
Would that decision be solely up to Red Bull? I doubt it.
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 19:52 (Ref:3924263)   #25
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Why would Red Bull not like that?

1. It's unlikely they would be a threat on track.
2. I think Honda could provide three teams from an infrastructure perspective
3. More teams running the engine provides more data for long term reliability (and where they can push reliability to extract more performance). I think part of the advantage Mercedes has is that they have a ton of data on the longevity of various bits in the engine. And in what scenarios they can push the performance without it impacting reliability to the point that they run into power unit component allocation issues.

Isn't there a rule that limits the number of teams for a single provider? Is Mercedes and Ferrari at that limit now? Would it have to be Renault or Honda?

Richard
4 teams used Mercedes engine between 2014 and 2016, so I do not think there are limits.
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 19:59 (Ref:3924264)   #26
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4 teams used Mercedes engine between 2014 and 2016, so I do not think there are limits.
In that article it says: "Based on the number of teams competing in the championship, the FIA can call upon manufacturers to supply at least three teams, assuming 11 remain in 2017, if required."

As of 2018, there were 10 teams.
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Old 26 Aug 2019, 20:17 (Ref:3924265)   #27
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So, I dug around. The rules are in the Sporting Regulations. Appendix 9.

There is a lot going on in that Appendix, but in short, if they want, the FIA can force a manufacture to provide an engine to a new team in certain conditions. Broadly speaking, given the numbers today, if you are providing less than three you could be asked to do more. There are a number of exceptions and other small details that come into play.

Based upon my quick reading there is no upper limit on the number of teams a power unit supplier can supply. So it looks like a new team might get anyone. Or (I haven't done the math for this), if Mercedes or Ferrari said "no", then FIA could push Honda or Renault to supply a team.

I suspect Honda or Renault would gladly supply another team.

Richard
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Old 30 Aug 2019, 15:37 (Ref:3924849)   #28
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Brawn tells potential new teams to cool their heels until 2022...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...-2022/4524459/

Richard
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 10:19 (Ref:3924943)   #29
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I say they should come in when they are ready, whether itís 2021 or 2022. Why wait? Itís not like the teams already there decided to wait
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 21:57 (Ref:3925022)   #30
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No I agree with the governors.
No point coming in now. Better to wait til.'22/23 when the new regs are bedded in.
Of course, most interested mftrs will be testing things out on a fairly regular basis in case the board gives the get-go!
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