FIA World Touring Car Championship 2012

[iceman-1987]

who/what is RATEL?

[helgi]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Is it really that different to F1 where FOM (commercial rights holder and host broadcaster) dictate the start time of Far Eastern races to suit their mainly European TV audience?

Well, I'm not a F1 fan, so I didn't think about that while writing.
From my Institute I've taken a simple rule that racing is a multifactor experiment. The way to get know what machine+pilot+team combination is the best. It's not a show. Well, it's great when racing becomes popular among huge number of average TV-spectators. But it's not good at all when TV dictates the rules.

And Stephane Ratel is a some sort of Bernie Ecclestone in GT world.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Is it really that different to F1 where FOM (commercial rights holder and host broadcaster) dictate the start time of Far Eastern races to suit their mainly European TV audience?

Start time is not so big deal as race format. Yes, I know about time limit, but it hasn't so much influence on results.

[helterskelter]

The F1 time limit is a joke, the Canadian GP lasted about 4 hours this year!
This heavy link with Eurosport is very good for the WTCC, but it still gives a few problems.
I don't know about you guys abroad, but here in Italy Eurosport is a part of the SKY platform, on Satellite TV. It means that, out of the few people who have a SKY subscription, you have to take out those who have it to watch films, those who have it just to watch football matches (the majority here in Italy) and those who like tv shows.
Now, out of those people, some percentage will also watch the WTCC when it comes along on tv. My opinion is that if you don't air a championship on free tv, nobody will even notice it exists, unless he's a racing fan of course.
The fact that Eurosport has an exclusive deal with SKY, at least here in Italy, means that the footage cannot be aired outside of the SKY platform. The Superstars Series is more popular than the WTCC in Italy and has more following. That is not down to the quality of the championships (the two have very different concepts) but it's down to the free coverage. In Italy it is aired on the same tv that airs the Superbike championship (also owned by Flammini), and that created a base of motorsport enthusiasts who also like to watch the Superstars Series.
TV is the key to make a championship interesting. F1 would make no sense without the tv, and so would MotoGp. How can a manufacturer spend millions to develop a car, pay drivers and teams and so on, and then be seen by a few thousand people?
Of course the WTCC has a stronger following in other countries, but why should Alfa Romeo come back, or Abarth, or whichever Italian brand, should join the championship?
Let me also add that when Tarquini won the championship (An FIA World Championship, we're not talking about winning a beauty contest), no TV news even mentioned that, whereas everyone talks about Ferrari, Valentino Rossi, and even SBK. That's silly!

[kurski]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Of course the WTCC has a stronger following in other countries, but why should Alfa Romeo come back, or Abarth, or whichever Italian brand, should join the championship?

Believes that the Alfa Romeo or Abarth Coming WTCC series would be a good thing. WTCC series needs the Italian car manufacturer.

[iceman-1987]

helterskelter what u said about eurosport is true but u forgot that this year eurosport has develped a way to follow its channel by the net using eurosport player.
in my opinion this is a great news because it allows to people to know and to see the wtcc even without pay sky.
the problem of italian people who doesnt know other races a part F1 and the ferrari has always existend and will continue to exist but it is not valid reason for the alfa romeo to dont partecipate to wtcc because wtcc doesnt run just in italy but it run around the world anyway we must also admit that fortunately the italian fun people have grew up since the past.

by those "genious" who manage FIAT should make me understand why PORSCHE and AUDI can partecipate in the same champions (LE MANS SERIES from 2014) while ALFA ROMEO cant partecipate in the wtcc just because there is already a program for the FIAT PUNTO ABARTH in the rally!!! i really would like to understand how can they value IRC more important than WTCC.
and then do we ask why FIAT is a **** OF MANUFACTURE?!

looking news on the web and on the magazine it SHOULD be sure that from the next year after chevy also volvo and ford will enter officially in the wtcc. let's wait news from seat and subaru but i think that subaru will renounce atleast for the next year to enter in the wtcc after whats happened in japan and about seat in my opinion if they decide to come back in the wtcc they should start to think to a new model cause the leon is really an old car and maybe its time to develop a new one.

[I Rosputnik]

I'm on the fence with Eurosport. The upgrades that Eurosport have brought in compared to last year are a definite improvement, but I wish they took a page from the BBC's book and went more indepth with how the cars work, what makes the similar to road cars and what makes them different and previews of the tracks.

As for the length of time, I would go with three 30 minute races. Then at least its around the same amount of time of a BTCC event.

Also I remember that Fiat or Alfa were one of the manufacturers that rumoured to be entering a while back on a touring car times article. I didn't mention them in the OP as nothing as come up since.

[iceman-1987]

Also I remember that Fiat or Alfa were one of the manufacturers that rumoured to be entering a while back on a touring car times article. I didn't mention them in the OP as nothing as come up since.[/QUOTE]

can u give me some website where i can find news on wtcc please?

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

can u give me some website where i can find news on wtcc please?

TouringCarTimes is the authority

Iceman, I agree with you in terms of improved coverage, but the problem is always there. How do you get people interested?
For me, the answer is extensive tv coverage, not a web player. A web streaming is very important of course, but it would work perfectly for Formula One or for a smaller series who needs live coverage, or even karting.
We're talking about a World Championship here, not a joke. If people had the chance to watch it because it comes up every two Sundays things would be different; The way things are now, people have to look for the races, it's not the races finding them.
I think it is one of the reasons why Alfa don't join. You want visibility in your top markets, and one of them is surely Italy. They should join anyway, because of the marketing advantages and the 'sporty' image you get out of a WTCC project (imagine a Giulietta or a MiTo racing in the WTCC!!), but the fact that the big audiences don't follow the championship makes them sponsor Valentino Rossi in the MotoGp instead of racing in the WTCC!!!!
It's not a matter of HOW Eurosport covers the events (It's a super professional TV and Martin Haven is one of the best journalists out there, and it's also in HD), but it's a matter of how many people it reaches (at least here in Italy).
Have you ever wondered why BMW Italia chose to field 4 cars in the Superstars Series instead of 2 (or one) in the WTCC?
The success the WTCC has reached in Hungary proves the championship can be effective, and actually is. Maybe they should avoid making the TVs pay so much for the rights and just try to make the championship more popular. They own the championship and would make money through entry tickets, entry fees and organization of the championship in general.

[iceman-1987]

helter in my opinion bmw italia chose to field 3 cars in superstars because the cost is less expensive than wtcc. anyway we cant compare wtcc with superstars. in superstars a part few driver almost 10 (on 30 on the grid) can be considered excelent drivers! in the wtcc the gap from the first and the last in qualifying is not more than 2 seconds (without considerer fabiani that i dnt understand why he is loosing time in the wtcc if he arrives always last).

btw in my opinion the wtcc has rexisted enough well against the world crisis that there has been in the last years so i think that for the future it could only grew up.

about alfa i think the main problem has given by the people who manage fiat in this moment! they dnt believe in motorsport in general not only wtcc they just think to make deal with other manufactures (chrysler).

[Wheels of Fire]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

The Superstars Series is more popular than the WTCC in Italy and has more following. That is not down to the quality of the championships (the two have very different concepts) but it's down to the free coverage. In Italy it is aired on the same tv that airs the Superbike championship (also owned by Flammini), and that created a base of motorsport enthusiasts who also like to watch the Superstars Series.

last year was aired on the same tv channel of sbk (la7)
this year is on raisport2,on digital terrestrial television

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

helter in my opinion bmw italia chose to field 3 cars in superstars because the cost is less expensive than wtcc. anyway we cant compare wtcc with superstars. in superstars a part few driver almost 10 (on 30 on the grid) can be considered excelent drivers! in the wtcc the gap from the first and the last in qualifying is not more than 2 seconds (without considerer fabiani that i dnt understand why he is loosing time in the wtcc if he arrives always last).

btw in my opinion the wtcc has rexisted enough well against the world crisis that there has been in the last years so i think that for the future it could only grew up.

about alfa i think the main problem has given by the people who manage fiat in this moment! they dnt believe in motorsport in general not only wtcc they just think to make deal with other manufactures (chrysler).

About Alfa and Fiat in general: The deal with Chrysler IS important, but it shouldn't rule the WTCC out. Anyway they revived a sporty brand such as Abarth and invested a lot also in racing, though in rallies and with the 500 Abarth one-make series. I think their strategy is wrong but hey, their money, their calls, their mistakes!
Don't get me wrong, I was not comparing the WTCC and the Superstars, I agree with you that the latter costs less and they are not comparable. Of course fielding 4 cars in the Superstars doesn't cost much more than running one in the WTCC. It was strategic, also because with a smaller budget it's easier to find paying drivers.
Yes, there are more 'amateurs' in the Superstars Series, but the grid has some high quality drivers (Ferrara, Herbert, Biagi, Pigoli, Bertolini, Cerqui...). But that's kind of off topic, isn'it?
Back to topic, I think that the new rules, who had been described as 'sport-killers' by many, have actually helped and the manufacturers are more interested, and so are the drivers. Maybe the problem is that the national championships are going different ways, which is silly.
I love S2000 cars, I like NGTC, but they should sit down and choose one format that fits both the BTCC and the WTCC, also to make the circulation of the cars easier. That would give both championships a boost: The WTCC teams would know they'd "easily" sell the cars and the BTCC teams could buy them at an affordable price, and have competitive cars. That would be a great move, especially as far as the independents are concerned.

[iceman-1987]

yes i agree with u! the wtcc should be the most important touring car series and all the wtcc rules should be followed by btcc stcc and other touring national series.
in this way it would be more easy to increase the number of cars on the grid adding also the car of the national series when the wtcc goes to run in one of those country where there is already a national championship.
4 example if btcc cars used 1.6 turbo as in the wtcc this weekend we could have on the grid also drivers and cars which partecipate to btcc only!

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

yes i agree with u! the wtcc should be the most important touring car series and all the wtcc rules should be followed by btcc stcc and other touring national series.
in this way it would be more easy to increase the number of cars on the grid adding also the car of the national series when the wtcc goes to run in one of those country where there is already a national championship.
4 example if btcc cars used 1.6 turbo as in the wtcc this weekend we could have on the grid also drivers and cars which partecipate to btcc only!

Yes, as long as they're one-off entries like Turkington or Dahlgren in the past. I wouldn't want to see a 'merger race'!

[I Rosputnik]

Remember the Subaru rumours? According to this, Subaru will splitting the WRX from the Impreza range and reading further the article claims that Subaru will be looking at using this new car for the WTCC in the future. (2013/2014)

I'm not a fan of Motor Trends attempt at guessing what it will look like, but if the end car looks like the old Impreza 22b then I will be drolling endlessly.

[awrb]

Oh dear lord that yellow car is hideous. Though, judging by a few of the Subaru's recently it may just be ugly enough to reach production.

[iceman-1987]

why subaru doesnt use the model legacy?

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

why subaru doesnt use the model legacy?

Because it's too big?

[Wheels of Fire]

one of ford drivers will be foust.

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by Wheels of Fire

one of ford drivers will be foust.

Would be interesting to see. Does he have much circuit racing experience? I know he does rally.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Wheels of Fire

one of ford drivers will be foust.

That would be a god send for the series in exposure terms and might jazz the series up a little. Did the source say he would be in the series full time?

Hmm, but then I though Foust was spearheading Ford's rallycross effort.

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by Wheels of Fire

one of ford drivers will be foust.

Who is Foust?

[I Rosputnik]

This is Tanner Foust.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

That would be a god send for the series in exposure terms and might jazz the series up a little.

You mean there will be lots of short-lived media attention until people realise that he can't live up to the hype. Being able to do donuts and jumps doesn't make you a race driver.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by redshoes

You mean there will be lots of short-lived media attention until people realise that he can't live up to the hype. Being able to do donuts and jumps doesn't make you a race driver.

Hopefully he'll live up to the reputation of having a heavy right foot, so we might see some exitment again, something that has been missing in racing in general for quite some time.