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Old 12 Aug 2003, 18:20 (Ref:686475)   #1
andy wilson
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Classic Special Saloons

how many people out there would be interested in racing in a classic special saloon car championship (mini, imp ,anglia, escort ,capri,daf ,skoda,camaro that sort or thing.which organisation would be best to approch to run the championship and how well do you think it would be supported
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Old 12 Aug 2003, 18:37 (Ref:686491)   #2
Andrew Kitson
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I don't think you will find the cars. Most are probably scrapped or their internals donored for something else.
Not only that, where would it stand on modern noise limits? Nice idea though. Most cars will have to be built up new. Which regs would be used as special saloons went through many changes.
The re-appearance of Baby Bertha as the classic special saloon would be a good starter, and Gerry still owns his 2.3 Firenza 'Old Nail'. Then we need to find a Run Baby Run, Whiting Escort, Strawson Boss Capri, DFVW, Mick Hill Beetle V8 plus the many Skoda clones and Imps/Minis/Anglias etc. You then will have the battle with clubs to include it in their meetings. There are already far too many series. Perhaps include them with Classic Thunder?
However we have the modern equivalent with Formula Saloons now.
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Old 13 Aug 2003, 07:08 (Ref:686857)   #3
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
if it ran with say the F3 and GT championship iit should be fine for niose as they are ok, I think it would be great and subject to cost I would be up for it!
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Old 13 Aug 2003, 09:30 (Ref:686941)   #4
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You might like to view this website.

http://www.geocities.com/specialsaloons/
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Old 13 Aug 2003, 11:58 (Ref:687034)   #5
Andrew Kitson
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Thanks Pete - some great shots on there, especially the ex-Whiting Escort V6.
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Old 13 Aug 2003, 12:48 (Ref:687103)   #6
simon drabble
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
great site I love the Sugden Skoda - Autosport did a feature on it recently. I think I read that he is retiring at the end of this season so maybe it will come up for sale... I think the Europa looks great as well but some of the others do not look so nice! Would the Hamilton Aston V8 be in the same series?
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 09:12 (Ref:687905)   #7
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
fantastic . . . .I guess something like Doc Merefields V8 MK1 Cortina would be eligible . . .someone offered me a spaceframe V8 Mk1 not long ago
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 17:12 (Ref:688351)   #8
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I remember that V8 Cortina very well. Terry Sanger and later Brian Bolton also raced it. Big wide boots and lots of power. It used to annihilate the opposition at Silverstone and Snetterton with the long straights but faced stiffer opposition from the hot Anglias and Mk1 Escorts on the twistier circuits.
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 17:25 (Ref:688363)   #9
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I used to spanner for Doc Enderby from the 850 8 Port Mini right through to the Karmann Ghia, which he still has.
I think Andrew is right, it would be a tough battle to get a full grid of cars out there, clubs would be very hard to convince to run such a championship.
There are places they can run such as the Combe GT series but look at the grids for that now, just 9 cars the other week.
The other thing is that most of the drivers of the period are that much older, though has to be said, a few are still racing, and so are their sons in some cases !
I'd love to take the Karmann Ghia out though, having spent a good part of my yoof building it !

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Old 14 Aug 2003, 17:42 (Ref:688373)   #10
Andrew Kitson
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That was / is a great machine Tony. Spent many a happy hour watching it in special saloon races at places like Mallory. What about Peter Day's little Fiat, Ginger Marshall's Mini Estate, Tony Dickinson's Skoda, the Macguire Minis...fantastic days.
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 17:52 (Ref:688379)   #11
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Agreed. So why did it die? Or was it legislated out of existence? Does the current Sports Saloon Championship match up?
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 18:46 (Ref:688422)   #12
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The problem seems to be with the modern special GT/sports saloons is that the class structure. The bottom class is upto 1600cc, which either means a Radical prosport/SR3 or similar and lots of money spent, and with minimum weight limit of 550kg (without driver) then most of the older cars are just not competative. How many Maguire's or mini's /specials are close to that. Most are alot under, and this means there advantage is lost (less weight means better braking/cornering/corner speed).

If more classes/series went to a power to weight ratio format then you will see imp engined stuff against for example racing and beating Porsche for example.

Look at the SRGT series run by 750mc, a Davrian (imp engined kit car ineffect) beating Jag C/D types and 911's. Yes you still have the big banger class at the front but people can by the car that looks great, and then when funds allow get a faster engine and move up a class. It worked in the past but died out in the 80's and 90's, and that with half the cars still being around, but were made obsolete overnight. There must have been a couple of other issues around at the time as well.

It was great to see a 1100 Maguire Silletto (450kg/130bhp)racing and beating alot more modern machinery last year at Brands FF festival. Pity the David vs Goliath battles are nearly exstinct. I would have loved to have seen some of the 70's modsports/specials racing, .

btw I do remember the David Ellis Aston Martin V8 from the 80's, does anyone know anything about this beast, I know it was special and destroyed the opposition many a time...
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 19:06 (Ref:688449)   #13
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Is anybody else getting that "I want to build one" feelings?
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 19:36 (Ref:688469)   #14
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think the problems of cost killed it. When my Dad was a mechanic with special saloons it was relatively inexpensive - the original shell, any power plant / transmission / wheels / brakes you liked but with glassfibre doors, bootlid and bonnet. In most cases ( Anglias) such as ours, a Lotus twin-cam was favourite.
Then came the spaceframe exotic specials and eventually it died.
But can enough cars of the calibre of Sugden's Skoda be found to re-ignite the class?
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Old 14 Aug 2003, 20:30 (Ref:688507)   #15
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A lot of special saloons used parts from single seaters and sport racing cars, some of them used a sport racer with a replica body perched on top,these parts could be bought cheaply, i dont think with the growth of historic racing, this would be case today.
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