Blue Book changes for 2004

[JimW]

Today having been wet and very windy, I decided to spend some of it reading the Blue and Red books to identify what has changed. I always mark up the changes (not just the grey shading which the MSA applies to show there has been a change) and if giving an Observers training seminar make up a sheet listing the alterations. Here is my take on the changes which have been made which interest/concern me. Mainly to do with marshalling and the conduct of races, speed events and stage rallies. Not judicial, championship, technical or eligibility. Also I make no guarantees as to correctness or completeness so you must check for yourself if it really matters to you! Italics show added or changed wording. These are not quotations, but paraphrases.

Red book Appendix S Emergency and Medical services. Some changes to paramedic acceptability. No change to Rescue unit crewing or equipment. (Except that they have forgotten to change the rally radio frequency).

D.1.1.2 A track licence is now only valid subject to the conditions in them and if an MSA permit is held.

D.4.1 All enclosures (which means places where spectators may be) must now have barriers which are designed to be capable of stopping a car.

E.12.2.11 Tinted “glass” must now not distort the colours of flag/light signals.

H31.5 In a stage rally, a competitor who sees an SOS board displayed by another competitor must now stop and report this (and the location ha, ha) to the next radio point which they pass. They must also report this at the finish. The Clerk may allow them a time allowance for having done this. (I’ll be very interested to see this happen. Remember that every car which passes the SOS board until the stage is stopped must stop and report! The radio car will be busy.)

J.4.94 The regs for the use of safety etc. cars are still only obtainable from the MSA. However they must now be fully complied with at all times. (Do you think this will stop some clubs (750MC, BTCC) trying to invent their own?)

J.9.1.11 Oval racing cars are now allowed to use radios if spotters are in use.

J.13.3.1 The ten second jump start penalty will not carry penalty points (on the licence).

J.16.1.p The Black and yellow is no more.

K.9.1.5 Stage rally The marking for a car containing a disabled driver is changed from a blue disc with a black D to a blue disc with a white D. This brings it into line with E.2.11.4 (races) but H.17.1.7 (off road events) still says a black D. (I suspect that this last is an oversight.)

L.2.1 Speed events must now say whether drivers are allowed to walk or drive slowly over the course. One option or the other, not either/or and not at the driver’s choice. Also note that the walk/drive must take place before the competitive runs, (not (necessarily) the practice runs).

(Now I'm off to the pub for a drink. )

Regards

Jim

[G Tanner]

Originally posted by JimW

J.16.1.p The Black and yellow is no more.

J 5.1.1 Each Flag Marshalling Post shall be provided with a Hazard Area Board (not applicable at Kart Circuits) and the following flags: Yellow and Black Quartered etc.

The Black & Yellow Flag is Dead, Long live the Black & Yellow.


I also gather that a single Safety Car system has been agreed for all UK races. Watch this space.

[Peter Harding]

Heh Jim. What's 750MC done to upset the Safety Car rules. For the last 2 years I have included safety car rules in the notes for marshals straight from those provided by the MSA.
To move on: I have already got the new SC rules from MSA and they have combined the two previous ones. That is Waved yellow while "snake" is in your sector and green at all posts for one lap after it is in. I have queried rule 4 of the "operation" section which says "... A second yellow flag may be used at those points where additional hazars are present. ...
I want to know if "may" really means it is optional and whether all circuits will provide 2 yellows for all meetings.
There is also a bit about restarting behind the safety car which needs clarification.

[JimW]

Originally posted by Peter Harding
Heh Jim. What's 750MC done to upset the Safety Car rules. For the last 2 years I have included safety car rules in the notes for marshals straight from those provided by the MSA.
. . .

Peter, if my memory serves me correctly from two years ago, 750 altered the bit about whether (and how many) laps under B/Y counted or not. Or were you the ones who used the MSA rules while the others changed them?

Now since the rules were not published (why?) I can't find out whether they should have been asterisked in the past as alterable in the Supplementary Regs? Still one set has been introduced (still not published) and is now mandatory.

Given what the rules are doing I cannot understand why they are not in the Blue book. But then I suppose that if they told us they would have to kill us.

They seem to have gone for the worst alternative of waved yellows all round and the possibility of a second yellow. :confused:

Regards

Jim

[Peter Harding]

Jim - your orinal post was about safety cars so I'll pass on the no of laps counting under B/Y as another subject.
I agree, with one set of rules their seems to be no reason not to publish unless a) they just copied the existing process without thinking, or b) didn't have time to include them this year.
I also felt the way to go was the stationary yellow to avoid the 2nd yellow scenario but as my race secretary is on the decision making committee, i have to bow to their better knowledge. i have to respect him for following his own views and not letting his 750 fellows influence him.

Now that may sound a bit sarcastic but I am very serious

PS how do I get one of those faces with the tongue sticking out after that last comment.


Pete

[Stuart Hill]

I "know" all the previous posters.....

and trust them....

so why.....

do I not have the slightest idea about the current rules???

I am an Incident Marshal at most events;
but am sometimes asked to be Observer/Flag.....

should I know about all these changes???? is it my fault if I do not???

[JimW]

Originally posted by crazystu
I "know" all the previous posters.....

and trust them....

so why.....

do I not have the slightest idea about the current rules???

I am an Incident Marshal at most events;
but am sometimes asked to be Observer/Flag.....

should I know about all these changes???? is it my fault if I do not???

Yes and no. Because you are an ignorant coarse marshal might be one unkind way of putting it.

But a more reasonable person (and you know that I am more reasonable - well more reasonable than I used to be ) might say that it was the fault of the clubs which gave you a pierhead jump to the exalted status of observer and still failed to give you the necessary paperwork/guidance.

I'm afraid that you have to seek these things out for yourself in many cases. Ask the Chief Observer - quite often they will welcome having something useful to do.

The better organised clubs (of whom 750 spring to mind - got to keep Peter happy) will send observers (perhaps everyone) the regs they are going to use. Otherwise just relax and do the best you can with the tools you have.

Regards

Jim

[Asp]

Originally posted by Peter Harding
PS how do I get one of those faces with the tongue sticking out after that last comment.

: then p
Or, click "full topic reply features" above the quick reply box and you'll see a full set to use

[JimW]

Originally posted by Peter Harding
. . . I also felt the way to go was the stationary yellow to avoid the 2nd yellow scenario but as my race secretary is on the decision making committee, i have to bow to their better knowledge. i have to respect him for following his own views and not letting his 750 fellows influence him.. . .
Pete

I'm less concerned with the actual decision than with the same decision so I regard this as a win overall. But I'd like to be reassured that the people making the decision actually had trackside experience, rather than race control experience. And I only bow to others when I feel that they have deserved it. And even then I feel free to disagree with them.

Regards

Jim

(I like those too.)

[Peter Harding]

:c

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by JimW
Yes and no. Because you are an ignorant coarse marshal might be one unkind way of putting it

Ignorant and COARSE eh?

Stu, if I were you I'd be deeply upset!!

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by JimW

L.2.1 Speed events must now say whether drivers are allowed to walk or drive slowly over the course. One option or the other, not either/or and not at the driver’s choice. Also note that the walk/drive must take place before the competitive runs, (not (necessarily) the practice runs).

Jim, the Blue Book has always stated this but for some reason this year they have changed Section L so that it's back to what it was a couple of editions ago.

Also the walk/drive could be construed as the practice run if you choose to read it that way. Depends on how the person writing the regs for each sprint view it I suppose but whichever they must state which option is being used in the SRs.

Sheila

[JimW]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JimW

L.2.1 Speed events must now say whether drivers are allowed to walk or drive slowly over the course. One option or the other, not either/or and not at the driver’s choice. Also note that the walk/drive must take place before the competitive runs, (not (necessarily) the practice runs).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by Sheila M
Jim, the Blue Book has always stated this but for some reason this year they have changed Section L so that it's back to what it was a couple of editions ago.

Also the walk/drive could be construed as the practice run if you choose to read it that way. Depends on how the person writing the regs for each sprint view it I suppose but whichever they must state which option is being used in the SRs.

Sheila

Not quite Sheila.

The essential point of this year's change is the move to make walk/drive an organiser's, exclusive, choice.

Yes the walk/drive is is construed as being in substitution for a practice run. And the reading that the run must be before competition rather than practice is, at least, arguable.

Regards

Jim

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by JimW
Not quite Sheila.

The essential point of this year's change is the move to make walk/drive an organiser's, exclusive, choice.

Yes the walk/drive is is construed as being in substitution for a practice run. And the reading that the run must be before competition rather than practice is, at least, arguable.

Regards

Jim

That's why I said it depends on the person writing the regs views it - I bet there'll be more than one view!!!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by observer
Ignorant and COARSE eh?

Stu, if I were you I'd be deeply upset!!

If I'd got upset every time Jim corrected or enlightened me I would have slit my wrists years ago !!

If the cost of having him pass-on his experience to me, and others, is the odd slip-of-the-tongue then it's a mighty small price to pay.


Besides, revenge is so sweet !!!!

[JimW]

Originally posted by crazystu
If I'd got upset every time Jim corrected or enlightened me I would have slit my wrists years ago !!

If the cost of having him pass-on his experience to me, and others, is the odd slip-of-the-tongue then it's a mighty small price to pay.


Besides, revenge is so sweet !!!!

Slip of the tongue. Certainly not. (But I did put a smiley after it which Observer has seen fit not to include. )

Jim

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by JimW
Slip of the tongue. Certainly not. (But I did put a smiley after it which Observer has seen fit not to include. )

Jim

Tut, Tut, Tut !!!!! fancy an "observer" missing out crucial information????

Now if I did something like that, I can just imagine my next meeting with jimW !!!!!!!

[Mark Mitchell]

I didn't "Miss It" - I simply chose not to include it......it wouldn't have been as insulting if I had included the smiley.

[JimW]

Originally posted by observer
I didn't "Miss It" - I simply chose not to include it......it wouldn't have been as insulting if I had included the smiley.

Thank you - I'll bear that in mind.

Jim

[John Newman]

Hi
I was going to post this after the training days, but you have beaten me to it.
Firstly the new safety car regs are on my website in their entirety on: http://www.flag-marshal.org.uk secondly I (and afew others I have spoken to) am not too happy about the waved flag in your sector bit. V. difficult when single handed to wave one (or two) yellows, hold a cardboard SC board and perhaps a third flag as well.
More news on this aspect later.

[JimW]

Originally posted by John Newman
Firstly the new safety car regs are on my website in their entirety on: http://www.flag-marshal.org.uk secondly I (and afew others I have spoken to) am not too happy about the waved flag in your sector bit. V. difficult when single handed to wave one (or two) yellows, hold a cardboard SC board and perhaps a third flag as well.
More news on this aspect later.

Thanks John, I knew someone would have a copy.

Regards

Jim

[John Newman]

Maybe, but it was difficult to get hold of them as the MSA were not having a helpful day & I had to scrounge a set from "a club" & scan them as the MSA would only release them to clubs in hard copy!

[Jim Lamb]

Has anyone been 'bored' enough to scan the Officials pages? Do my eyes deceive me, the 'omission' of some senior BARC race clerks must me a mistake?

Yours Intrigued,

Jim Lamb

[John Newman]

About time too!!

[Peter Harding]

I noticed practically all the BARC Clerks were missing but assumed that they were late getting their renewals in. It is inconceivable that they have all given up.