Worst track in europe must be Monza!

[eein]

After reading that Max reckons Silverstone deserves this, I though I'd put my contender forward.

Two seasons ago myself and my girlfriend when to two Grand Prix. Silverston and Monza. For both we had general admission.

Silverstone was expensive, but incredibly entertaining and well organised. We even got a letter a few days before it to say there was to be an 'overnight car park'. So we went on the Friday night and slept in my car boot (just big enough and very comfy!). The amount of extra entertainment over and above F1, Porsche and F3000 was staggering. There was also plenty of room to walk around the circuit and the huge number of stalls. On race day we got in quite quickly and got a place at the final corner to sit. It filled up, but were never squashed and during the day when we walked about, there was still enough free places to see the track from. All in all, a very good weekend.

Then later in the year we flew off to Monza. Things were going good after we got bumped up on the hire car from thier cheapest no air con to an air-con, leather seats large exec car! We wanted to do Monza 'properly' and so camped in the campsite right on the track just after the first chicane. Things were even better when the next day we bump into Eddie Irvine's parents with their camper van in the campsite (how such nice people can produce an idiot like eddie is beyond me!).

For the first week, we did the tourist stuff - Milan, Lake Como, walked up an alp (they look quite timid untnil you start walking up the side of one!).

Then on the Wednesday, walking around the park the circuit is in, we discovered that the fence around the circuit was littered with holes. So we went for a walk in the circuit! We were right in the paddock talking to the guys emptying the trucks! We walked along the old banking and had lunch in the final corner gravel trap. While this was fun, we did wonder why a F1 circuit had no security - at the end of the Wednesday, we walked out the main gates where there were no gaurds at all.

On the friday and saturday we discovered what a disgusting hole of a place it is inside - there was no space to walk round the stands, the toilets were disgusting, there was nothing appart from the main manufacturers stalls, there were no sign posts to find your way round the in-field and the whole place was very unclean even at the beginning.

On the saturday, loads of people went in and set up little 'camps' next to the fences, taping it off and getting very aggressive to anyone who came near 'their bit'. By the time qualifying started, there was nowhere to stand at the fence left in the whole circuit and almost no spaces on the non-ticket seats.

The worst was on sunday - myself and another guy got up and went straight in to find a seat when the gates opened (g/f's follwed with our days 'stuff'). We knew where we wanted to sit, but despite running and keeping ahead of all the others who came in, when we got there, the stands were full of locals in sleeping bags. We then find out that every year, thousands of locals break in during the night and take all the seats and the security do nothing about it.

We eventually got a seat after I got annoyed and started walking on top of the sleeping people and rolling them down the metal stands!

After sitting for a while, there was an odd smell. looking behind we see that some locals who had been camping in the trees had decided to start a huge fire and topple a few porta-loos on it. A security guy appeared, talked to the people, then left without doing anything. It burned for most of the day.

All the time we are sitting as the sun comes up, people are appearing from across the track,running across adn climbing the high trackside fence, having broken into the circuit. Again security are walking on the track, doing nothing.

After the sun is up, the next 'tradition' begins. All the locals hurl grass bottles onto the track, covering it in broken glass!! Later on, tractors come along with gigantic hair drier things on the back and blow most of the glass off (into the gravel). Loads of track people with brushes come along after and manually sweep the rest off. I did notice some remaining on the kerbing - not the kind of thing you want on a 150mph+ corner in an F1 car!

During a live race, it can be hard to keep up with things, thus the big TV screens are essential. At silverstone we could see 2 screen easily. At Monza, one of us could just see a screen only with binoclurs. Even worse, it was so small and the resolution so mince, that the text at the bottom (times and driver placings) were unreadable!

When the race finished, the fans instantly swamped the track. In the whole weekend, the only action was the F1, Porches and F3000. Almost no fans wathced the F3000 or the Porches. They just wanted the F1.

By the time we got down to the main straight, the garages were closed, the presentaion was finished and the fabled tifosi were all gone.

Our lasting impression was of a manky track, lacking in facilities, low entertainment value and we reckon we would only return if we had some fully paid VIP access.

The only good thing (for us) was that in the days after, we climed through the holes in the fences, watched the few remaning trucks pack up, walked onto the podium (the other guy found one of the champange corks!) best of all, we came accross the safety and medical cars (see picture).

So unless massive changes have been made at monza, it definetaly gets my vote as a race to get rid of. I don't care for any aleged history it may have.

Iain

[eein]

Oh - that ended up being a bit of a longer rant than I intended!

Anyone else got contenders for the worst track (in terms of overall spectator experience)?

Iain

[BMW V10]

I have only been to the Malaysian GP so I cannot compare it to other tracks.

[Fulvio]

I want to say just tha Italians are better than the ones you saw....

I ask you sorry for my nation, but the worst thing in Italy is fanatism... and an event like F1, or music concerts, or a Soccer Match sadly call only the more fanatic fans... and the well educated people always have to stay at home...

If you will give us another possibility, go seeing a "minor" race... you will have free stands, free access to the paddock and all the teams and drivers happy to see someone who came there just to see them. You will find a completely different ambient, surely more fun.

[429CJ]

In my mind the worst track is Barcelona, boring design, boring races.

[eein]

I have nothing against the Italians, just the F1 event at Monza. If I lived near an F1 track and I knew I could get in for free with no risk, being a big fan, I probably would!

Iain

[steve nielsen]

I'd say Hungary is the worst track , followed closely by Barcelona

[NiceGuyEddie]

Spa is pretty great....if you stick to the asfalt part....

[Pitstop]

Hungary is a great race track for the spectator - we were there last year. Yes, the race was somewhat lacking in excitement but the facilities, i.e. toilets, food stalls, shopping and 'entertainment, were great. Jarno Trulli (or was it Fisi?) actually raced the overhead helicopter around the track!! and won!!

The views were spectacular all around the track, (we could actually see 3/4 of the track and were facing the pit entrance and grid, TV screens clear, big and well positioned out of the sun, the weather fantastic, fans in high spirits, locals very friendly and helpful, well signposted in several languages, hotels clean and well stocked, Budapest brilliant, the only drawback was the dreadfull flooding of the Danube at the time.

I love Spa, my favourite race track - Hungary was nearly as good.

I have been to Silverstone many times, for all kinds of events, both 'corporate' and otherwise. It is a dirty place. The toilget facilities are appalling, the food is diabolical, access unbelievably bad, and, unless you have spent a fortune on a ticket with a seat attached to it, trackside sitting for the humble spectator, is on cinders.

It's a good race track as far as racing goes - good - nothing more than that.

It needs sorting out, putting the ticket paying F1 fans FIRST, not the shareholders.

[RWC]

Wow,that monza experience sounds absolute ****...unless you're a crook who likes bullying other people,then it must be heaven

[Attila]

I think the worst GP must be Hungary. I have been to all European GP-s in 2001. Of course I had paddock Club passes to every race, but the transfer to the circut and parking was worst in Hungary. Also, the Hungarian track is too small for F1, it was great for Porsche though. I say this as a Hungarian and I am not to happy about it.
The news is that the Hungaroring is being rebuilt at the moment. The front straight will be longer and there will be an extra passing place added. I am looking forward to the changes.
Cheers,

[JGM]

I went to Monza once and came to the conclusion that unless you've got a proper grandstand seat it's hardly worth going to. The view through the fences at ground level is very poor and crowd discipline is poor. The fences are routinely broken down and people pour in without paying. I watched a whole family clambering over the top of one high fence - dad, mum, the kids...

[Schummy]

eein: but, finally, did you like Monza or not?

[gttouring]

You had a great experience at Monza, what?
An F1 race would surely have had bruatl security- i have been too RoadAmerica and Philips Island and mosied about the track. If deer can find a way to cross DURING a race on an off day i can walk all over Elkhart Lake, but during the ALMS round forget it there are guys roaming the trees and bushes, so I expect that European tracks have similar circumstances.

[gttouring]

oh sorry it was F1 man nice security...but for Porsche and what have you it doesn't seem like and issue and that picture of yours had an Arrows in it, what year did you do this? and are you a younger bloke?
because now if I did that I would probably get arrested...
wow
oh well i have to get on my scooter Ciao

[eein]

It was 2001. And I am 'younger', so maybe looked like I fitted in when wandering about where I should not in the days before and after the GP.

The arrows had crashed in practice. A far better one was the Hakkinen crash right infront of us at the end of qualifying.

Another not too nice thing was the whole 9/11 thing. I can't really blame that one on Monza though. We knew somwthing was wrong - as we drove out the campsite one day, I saw for a fraction of a second the small tv in the bar - it had a picture of the towers with a fire near the top of one - load of peopl were crowded round wathcing it. I reckoned there must have been a fire or something - no beg deal, they happen. It wasnt until 3 days later (!) that we got a call from my g/f's dad to ask if 'we'd heard' before we heard what had happened. We couldnt belive that we'd been out and about for three days without knowing what had happened - I think we were the last in the world to know! IT also explained why the F1 cars had odd liveries!

[gttouring]

i was in the states when it happened (stll am) 9/11 was the most devastating thing i had ever seen...i haunts me still

[beau]

I find Monza one of the best the worst must be Hungary

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by Attila
I think the worst GP must be Hungary. I have been to all European GP-s in 2001. Of course I had paddock Club passes to every race, but the transfer to the circut and parking was worst in Hungary. Also, the Hungarian track is too small for F1, it was great for Porsche though. I say this as a Hungarian and I am not to happy about it.
The news is that the Hungaroring is being rebuilt at the moment. The front straight will be longer and there will be an extra passing place added. I am looking forward to the changes.
Cheers,

You sure are lucky to have been to them all!
But I think your home GP is totally OK, neighbour I have been to the track in October and yes, the wine fields (which is the real word for that?)and the dusty roads looked bad, but generally, the place is nice and very safe, since it's basically inside of a hill.

[Lee Janotta]

Vineyards.

[Svend]

Originally posted by eein
The arrows had crashed in practice. A far better one was the Hakkinen crash right infront of us at the end of qualifying.

I was on the same grandstand that Friday when Verstappen lost it

http://dutch.simracingzone.net/test/...verstappen.jpg

I totally agree on your story. Did you see anything of the fire in the Lesmo1-tirewall saturday night? I was at the inside of Lesmo2 (with sleepingbag) and saw hundreds of people climbing the fences. At first I was at the Ascari grandstand but that one got confiscated by armed police officers the night before the race!

Also, 10 minutes after the friday F3000 qually got red flagged an enourmous tree fell down right after the banking viaduct. I saw it happen, thank god there wasn't anyt racing going on since the tree crossed the track completely.

Only positive thing (was no longer possible in 2002) was that I camped at the camping next to the banking inside the circuit. Mythical place.. brushing your teeth at the inside of Lesmo 1 at a water pump is something really special

http://dutch.simracingzone.net/test/svend/banking1.jpg

Monza is **** for sure, except if you have a grandstand.

[Attila]

Miss Hardt you are right the track would be good for most series, but it is too small for F1. I have driven on the track many times in different cars, the fastest being a 94 F3 car and the track was ok for that car. It was only a test, but if there were 19 other cars next to me, I would be in panic at the end of the front straight.

That point of the track is the problem in my opinion, it is a tide, downward righthander where it is very easy to loose the rear of the car. That was pretty much the only overtaking place on the track for F1, it is very tricky because right after that corner there is a sharp, downward lefthander that is closly followed by again a relativly fast righthander. If you take the correct line you cannot be passed in either of those corners, if you go offline you lost it because the track is very dirty. In other words one can only overtake if one is about 30-35 km/h faster at the end of the straight.

Thankfully that is one part of the track that is being rebuilt at the moment. So we will see. I hope I reasoned correctly and you understand my point now.

Sorry about my English, it is getting quite rusty nowadays. Anyway, if you come around here give me a yell (E-mail will do) and we can have a beer :-)) (at least me).

Cheers,

[Miss Hardt]

Lee, thanks for your help Sometimes I just can't remember the word.

Attila, I am going to Gyula next week. The thing which prevents me from going to the race in Budapest are my catastrophic results in school...*ashamed*
Anyway, you're right about this thing you said. That must be the reason for that almost-zero-overtaking on each race.
However, it's good to have one race where something else comes to matter, like the strength of the driver himself and behaviour of the car in that heat.

[Attila]

Miss Hardt it is a shame that you come next week, because I will be having a vacation starting tomorrow till the 28th; so unfortunatelly we cannot meet. By the way my parents live in Békéscsaba (14km from Gyula) and I spend most of my weekends there. So it is a real shame, but maybe next time we could have a beer or two in Gyula or in Budapest.

Well grades are important :-)) at least more important than going to races (according to parents). In my view, once you start working nobody will ever ask about your grades :-).
Cheers

[Miss Hardt]

Békéscsaba is cool. We go there to our favorite cafe and the mall My dad also has a place where he likes to eat chicken.
So, 21st July is...Hungary, here I come