Future Grands Prix?

[Paradise City]

1998 is 20 years ago now. Isn't that somethin'? Argentina always seemed not that long off the calender. In part, because I'm been playing retro F1 games but still....

I like the Azerbaijan race actually; its an unusual track with a good backdrop. But the cars do have to be right for the track and the conditions, otherwise its a procession.

[S griffin]

Well it was on the calendar for 1999 but got cancelled, leaving a big break between Oz and Brazil

[Purist]

Thanks for the graphic, BJS.

I thought I'd just clarify a few things.

At the Buenos Aires circuit, Layouts 1-4, 10-11, and 14 ceased to exist after 1993, when they pulled up the old, longer Horquilla hairpin at the end of the lap.

On the Sportscar side, the Ascari sweeper at the end of Recta del Lago was changed into that right/left/right combination for the 1972 season, so the 1971 and '72 layouts weren't actually the same.

F1 used that optional little chicane at the exit of the shortened Horquilla corner for the 1972-81 Grands Prix.

It's not shown on any of those diagrams above, but the 1995-98 Grands Prix utilized the 'Senna S' in conjunction with Layout No. 6, which really slowed the exit of the second infield section.

(I'm not even going to try to explain all the lap lengths I now think there were for the various different configurations right now. Suffice it to say, that gets to be a real mess.)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

If they leave the circuits unique, in this case high speed flowing circuit, they will introduce more variables and the results will be more interesting.
If all the circuits are basically the same, expect the same result.

This is an interesting observation about Barcelona from Hamilton, in the wake of the recent pre-season testing.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134644

[bjohnsonsmith]

Liberty's plans to revamp the calendar are on hold.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134652

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Liberty's plans to revamp the calendar are on hold.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134652

I don't think they are finding it that easier to 'revolutionise' F1 and I don't think some of the teams are that allegedly that keen on the amount Liberty/FOM are spending on F1, which is coming out of their income. Apparently they will have 150 staff at their St James HQ by the end of the year. It was Bernie and the back of an envelope before....

[chillibowl]

i always thought the bouncing around the globe (often in ways that dont make logistical sense) was part of the charm of the sport.

also dont some promoters have problems with races in the same geographical region in the same time frame and the competition that brings. i want to say recently Austin raised this concern about Mexico and Malaysia sited Singapore as one of the reasons for declining attendance.

imo, this is one of those things that i hope they cant get done.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is an interesting observation about Barcelona from Hamilton, in the wake of the recent pre-season testing.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134644

yeah it is an interesting point. it eliminates character which i would think for the older more experienced drivers means it is also eliminating an advantage.

a decade plus worth of knowledge about track imperfections just got paved over.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i always thought the bouncing around the globe (often in ways that dont make logistical sense) was part of the charm of the sport.

also dont some promoters have problems with races in the same geographical region in the same time frame and the competition that brings. i want to say recently Austin raised this concern about Mexico and Malaysia sited Singapore as one of the reasons for declining attendance.

imo, this is one of those things that i hope they cant get done.

Malaysia and Singapore were at different times of the season and I don't see how Austin would be affected by Mexico. Were they expecting loads of Mexican F1 fans to cross the border?

[RedSquirrel]

I've always found the seemingly random globetrotting nature of the calendar a bit silly. The worst this year is Australia-Bahrain-China-Azerbaijan, closely followed by Monaco-Montréal-France. Farcical. Surely it would be better to start in Australia, do Japan, China, Singapore and a Middle East round (there only needs to be one) all at the start. Come back to Europe until September, then Canada, USA, Mexico and finish in Brazil. As far as I know there would be no weather problems with holding races in this order.
The teams will complain about having to wait for five rounds before they can really start proper car development but would we really care?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

I've always found the seemingly random globetrotting nature of the calendar a bit silly. The worst this year is Australia-Bahrain-China-Azerbaijan, closely followed by Monaco-Montréal-France. Farcical. Surely it would be better to start in Australia, do Japan, China, Singapore and a Middle East round (there only needs to be one) all at the start. Come back to Europe until September, then Canada, USA, Mexico and finish in Brazil. As far as I know there would be no weather problems with holding races in this order.
The teams will complain about having to wait for five rounds before they can really start proper car development but would we really care?

That's far too logical.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Events such as Canada I’m lead to believe have a relatively small window in the year in which they can take place, in their case long winters with short summers. Trying to match the Austin race with it didn’t happen due to the temperatures of a Texan summer.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Malaysia and Singapore were at different times of the season and I don't see how Austin would be affected by Mexico. Were they expecting loads of Mexican F1 fans to cross the border?

i think it was more about competing for the same group of spectators/travelers but dont remember exactly their issue or how important it was just that they had brought it up as a factor.

given how much they pay for hosting it seems a reasonable concern imo..

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

The teams will complain about having to wait for five rounds before they can really start proper car development but would we really care?

i guess i care more about that then the amount of flying time they have to put in.

is it just about weather though? different parts of the world, different holidays, other sporting or local events to consider, people get used to taking trips at the same time each year...a lot of moving parts.

criss crossing the globe is cool though!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Malaysia and Singapore were at different times of the season and I don't see how Austin would be affected by Mexico. Were they expecting loads of Mexican F1 fans to cross the border?

i think Sing and Mal were back to back this past year also.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i think Sing and Mal were back to back this past year also.

So they were.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Malaysia and Singapore were at different times of the season and I don't see how Austin would be affected by Mexico. Were they expecting loads of Mexican F1 fans to cross the border?

In 2012, when Austin first hosted the F1 GP, there was a very big contingent of Mexican fans who came over from Mexico. Same the year after. After the news that the Mexican GP would return, the number of Mexican fans attending the US GP dropped considerably. So much so US GP promoter Bobby Epstein called for the Mexican GP to be paired with the Canadian GP to help with the attendance figures for the US GP.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/10...d-with-canada/

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

imo, this is one of those things that i hope they cant get done.

Agree with you here.

For example, I know of F1 fans in Australia who attend the Australian GP and pay a premium price for their tickets, accommodation, food, etc. They also attend the Singapore GP (6 months later) and spend quite a bit of $$ for that race as well (flights, tickets, food & accommodation, etc). If the Singapore GP was to be a few weeks after the Australian GP, they will not go. Simple as that. Not enough time for the bank balance to recover. And there are many fans in the same boat worldwide.

If F1 was to host F1 races back to back within the same region, I see them losing a lot of fans who just cannot afford to attend two or three GP's a few weeks apart.

[el_cat]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Agree with you here.

For example, I know of F1 fans in Australia who attend the Australian GP and pay a premium price for their tickets, accommodation, food, etc. They also attend the Singapore GP (6 months later) and spend quite a bit of $$ for that race as well (flights, tickets, food & accommodation, etc). If the Singapore GP was to be a few weeks after the Australian GP, they will not go. Simple as that. Not enough time for the bank balance to recover. And there are many fans in the same boat worldwide.

If F1 was to host F1 races back to back within the same region, I see them losing a lot of fans who just cannot afford to attend two or three GP's a few weeks apart.

I think the concept of grouping races is sound, but only if entry fees are priced competitively enough that people can make a holiday out of it and follow the circus around.

At the moment, it’s anything but that and as such you will have scenarios such as the above where people just can’t afford to do what the calendar would be intended to facilitate.

[bella]

it helps considerably if you’re from the wrong side of the world on a “trip of a lifetime” effort but i agree - spending more on a ticket than accomodation isn’t something that makes it more affordable. general admission tickets are usually reasonable but i appreciate most people would prefer not to sit in the dirt or on concrete and arrive at dark o’clock to secure a good spot.

it’s not a workable suggestion but let’s say if they sold european, north and south american and far eastern season tickets or gave a discount for buying tickets for multiple races... how much more interesting could that be.

imagine. you buy a european season ticket for say, £1000 and signal the events you’ll be attending online. that guarantees you a grandstand seat with a covered roof and a view of a big telly. you’re issued with a pass, a bit like the paddock ones, with a photo that displays on the hand held gate ticket scanners that would be owned by f1. every time you go to an event, you get your pass updated with a grandstand seat number at the start. you get access to a private area with subsidised food and drinks, and a sit-down area.

or you pay £400 for a basic general admission pass for all the euro grands prix.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

In 2012, when Austin first hosted the F1 GP, there was a very big contingent of Mexican fans who came over from Mexico. Same the year after. After the news that the Mexican GP would return, the number of Mexican fans attending the US GP dropped considerably. So much so US GP promoter Bobby Epstein called for the Mexican GP to be paired with the Canadian GP to help with the attendance figures for the US GP.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/10...d-with-canada/

That article also says, last year’s United States Grand Prix drew an event record three-day crowd of 269,000, all be it with a little help from Taylor Swift.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That article also says, last year’s United States Grand Prix drew an event record three-day crowd of 269,000, all be it with a little help from Taylor Swift.

Interesting that we in Australia, with our population of c26 million get an event attendance of over 400,000. (Without Taylor Swift)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

Interesting that we in Australia, with our population of c26 million get an event attendance of over 400,000. (Without Taylor Swift)

You're not blessed with NASCAR.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

...it’s not a workable suggestion but let’s say if they sold european, north and south american and far eastern season tickets or gave a discount for buying tickets for multiple races... how much more interesting could that be...

like that idea. i think its a creative solution and would hope that they could make it workable as some sort of season pass, annual seat subscription, discount for each additional venue you buy for type thing.

perhaps a piecemeal approach to begin with where a couple of tracks within a days drive from one another start looking at ways to offer joint and cross promotion efforts.

obviously no numbers to back up what i am saying but it seems to me that ultimately all venues, regardless of they type of event they are hosting, are going to need to find more creative ways to attract live spectators as disposable incomes face more competition from more entertainment options, and particularity for sporting events, as the TV experience become better and more immersive.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

You're not blessed with NASCAR.

Thank heaven for small mercies. Live TV coverage is enough.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

obviously no numbers to back up what i am saying but it seems to me that ultimately all venues, regardless of they type of event they are hosting, are going to need to find more creative ways to attract live spectators as disposable incomes face more competition from more entertainment options, and particularity for sporting events, as the TV experience become better and more immersive.

mte. at the moment it feels as if the teams are operating on a completely different level to the series and events, and that balance needs redressing for the sake of thousands of jobs in the mid to long term future.

that's is why f1 has to change, and it's good that they are. it's also good that they're thinking far and wide about potential future changes to everything, literally everything, including the events. ultimately i think they've inherited a reasonable selection of traditional races and more modern venues with developing fanbases. i'd *love* to know whether they're planning to change if and how much venues pay for races and so forth.