It’s The Latte Latte Delta Tea Break 2018

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Yes, it is. The ‘ Robin Hamilton Aston Martin / 1’

Likely testing for Le Mans Classic?

Useles fact number 473 - David Preece used to be our school dentist.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

Did anyone read Marcus article last week in Autosport. I think he hit home very well on small grids and I was very surprised what he said about less competition licences being issued.

A lot of very valid observations from Marcus, including the critical one about too many meetings.... Interesting that he also mentions the difficulty getting to and from meetings on the UK’s ridiculously overcrowded road network as a factor! I’m with him 100% on that one. Not surprised that less competition licences are being issued, when you consider the cost of most motorsport nowadays!

[MGDavid]

Absolutely Mike; IMO the lack of leadership from the MSA in managing the number of events / series / championships and controlling costs is lamentable. I had an emailed survey from MSA earlier today and was delighted to be able to reflect my thoughts back to them

[midgetman]

Hallelujah Marcus Pye! I've been banging a similar drum for years.

With personal safety equipment costing upwards of a thousand pounds before you even sit in a racing car, how is any youngster without a lot of daddy's money going to start racing? And TBH there's nowhere near the interest amongst youngsters either, with Sim racing providing an outlet for competitive juices in many cases.

In all the discussion about HANS devices some time back, my opposition was purely financial and I have been proved right, the cost of setting oneself up in racing IS proving a barrier to entry. And here's a quick heads up to you all:

FIA 8856-2018 is just around the corner.

Yes, that's right, your racing overalls will all be out of date soon.

As Delta would say - "Happy days". It's almost enough to entice me back into race clothing retail again, for one last hit.

Motor racing is going back to its elitist roots, only the well heeled or those prepared to make unbelievable sacrifices will take part. I've still got contacts in the industry, and there are nowhere near the numbers of customers there used to be.

Historic racing will be the last to feel this cold wind, because there will always be wealthy older people re-capturing their youth. It may even be immune from the changes.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The 'red' version appears to be the earlier 1977 bodywork....

http://www.racingsportscars.com/type...n/AM%20V8.html

Absolutely nothing to do with the post but Why is it that the year 1977 seems modern to me .

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by midgetman

FIA 8856-2018 is just around the corner.

Yes, that's right, your racing overalls will all be out of date soon.

Max - can you enlighten us about what is planned. I've just done a quick (google) search for any other comment about this and found nothing....

The thought of having to fork out for a new suit may be the last straw and cause even more of us to hang up our helmets. Having said that, the cost would be less than the entry fee for some of the more high profile historic events, so your comment regarding "our" category of racing is probably valid.

[midgetman]

Hi Brian, I'm not totally up to speed on this but all I know is my insider already has 8856-2000 homologation, and has received notification from the FIA that he will soon have to apply for 8856-2018.

Now I expect that implementation is a couple of years away at least, as the standard will have to be ratified and then designs will have to be homologated. However, as Europe is 100% FIA for safety equipment it will probably impact "our" little corner of the UK scene before any other.

Speaking with my mole, we agree this is probably driven by the manufacturers. Sales must be down, as people take more care of expensive suits than they did the cheap Probans we used to wear. Cynic? Moi?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[bauble]

Now is the time for some creative thinking on the part of race organisers, there are far too many individual 'championships' in far too many categories, run by pretty much 'one interest clubs'.
I would not wish to offend anyone, organiser, club, driver by suggesting that their particular 'races' are insignificant or not worth the bother, so please bear with me;
I do attend some meetings such as the MGCC/CSCC and the spectator interest appears minimal, and there are multiple races for a wide variety of cars relevant only to the clubs concerned. While this is fine for them it does clog up the calendar, and dilute the enthusiasm for the average watcher.

Multi class races to ensure there is always a full grid, less emphasis on 'Championships', and more Formula Libre events might help. Usually for any 'class' there are rarely more than two or three genuine contenders for the overall win, most are out there because they enjoy racing their car. If clubs combined to host a two day meeting with races for mixed categories this might generate more interest for paying spectators. Back in the fifties the Boxing Day Brands Hatch Meetings would feature something out of the ordinary. I remember one race that had three different championship all on the same grid with each starting one after the other at differing times to reflect the expected lap times, Minis, Renault 5's and ?. Great fun to watch, a varied field, close racing amongst each class and against the other cars.

To be honest a grid of MG Metros is not one to stir the blood, and can be of interest only the drivers themselves.

Personally I would also favour more longer races with driver changes, pit stops, and a full circuit. The Birkett can hold interest for six hours as the cars are constantly changing, and the variety of cars on track is good for watching and must make the job of the driver even more so.

Just my own ideas, but I have been attending motor sport meetings for well over sixty years, and know what I like.

Where's me 'at?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Is Ian Brookfield still racing in ARCA, also Matt Daley?

Old friends & near neighbours but I'm a bit out of touch. Ian used to look after my Alfasud's. Nobody knows more than him about 'Suds.

Ian hasn't been out this year - he had a big shunt last year when his 155 V6 was punted sideways into the armco at the pit entry at Brands. He subsequently sold the car which has been repaired (although Ian thought it beyond repair) and it was out at Anglesey last weekend. I'm not sure what his plans are for this year.

Matt Daley had his 145 TS at the AROC Spring Alfa Day to help promote the ARCA series, but he hasn't yet raced it this year.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by bauble

Now is the time for some creative thinking on the part of race organisers, there are far too many individual 'championships' in far too many categories, run by pretty much 'one interest clubs'.
I would not wish to offend anyone, organiser, club, driver by suggesting that their particular 'races' are insignificant or not worth the bother, so please bear with me;
I do attend some meetings such as the MGCC/CSCC and the spectator interest appears minimal, and there are multiple races for a wide variety of cars relevant only to the clubs concerned. While this is fine for them it does clog up the calendar, and dilute the enthusiasm for the average watcher.

Multi class races to ensure there is always a full grid, less emphasis on 'Championships', and more Formula Libre events might help. Usually for any 'class' there are rarely more than two or three genuine contenders for the overall win, most are out there because they enjoy racing their car. If clubs combined to host a two day meeting with races for mixed categories this might generate more interest for paying spectators. Back in the fifties the Boxing Day Brands Hatch Meetings would feature something out of the ordinary. I remember one race that had three different championship all on the same grid with each starting one after the other at differing times to reflect the expected lap times, Minis, Renault 5's and ?. Great fun to watch, a varied field, close racing amongst each class and against the other cars.

To be honest a grid of MG Metros is not one to stir the blood, and can be of interest only the drivers themselves.

Personally I would also favour more longer races with driver changes, pit stops, and a full circuit. The Birkett can hold interest for six hours as the cars are constantly changing, and the variety of cars on track is good for watching and must make the job of the driver even more so.

Just my own ideas, but I have been attending motor sport meetings for well over sixty years, and know what I like.

Where's me 'at?

Bit of a quandary here, as I partially agree with you, but also disagree

Last weekend I was at Anglesey primarily to watch the ARCA race, but there were also races for the VW Fun Cup, the Ford ST-XR challenge, the Northern Formula Ford championship, TVR Challenge and the Civic Cup....and also on the Sunday Superkarting-UK Club championship. Most of the car races were 20 minutes, but the Fun Cup were 3 hour races......

Grid sizes were VW: 28, ST-XR: 16, Formula Ford: 10, Alfa: 17, TVR: 9, Civics: 28. You could certainly argue that two of those races were not viable, and I suspect that the Ford and Alfa ones were borderline financially. Spectator numbers were minimal - less than 100 at my guess, and I imagine most were linked to competitors......I know many people think that Anglesey is the end of the earth, of course

Next weekend I'll be competing at Silverstone with CSCC and we have over 400 competitors over the two days / 12 races. My race has 43 entered. Most of our races are 40 minute, pit-stop/driver change affairs. I'd be surprised if spectator numbers are much better than at Anglesey, discounting competitor-linked ones, despite Silverstone being somewhat more accessible, and the range of cars being wide.

My point being that club motorsport isn't really about spectators, and that longer, pit-stop races are arguably more confusing for spectators as unless the commentary is exceptional, it can be difficult to keep track of who is leading. I know at Anglesey if it hadn't been for TSL live timing, I'd have had no idea what was happening in the VW Cup!

[bauble]

I suppose the 'clutter' in the calendar complained of here, relates to 'historic' events, and would be irrelevant to MG/CS type of meetings, anyway.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Monsieur Jean des Hauts de France, did you pay a visit to Croix last weekend? It seems that at least two HTCC competitors gave up the second race due to race control decisions during round 1. I've been told they both were black flagged because the driver window was slightly winded down…

Sorry for the late reply Gerard, but I haven't been at home for a few days, so just catching up.

No, I didn't go to Croix in the end - when I saw that HTCC seemed to be about the only historic race on the programme I didn't bother. It's a shame as Croix really seems to be losing out these days, but I guess it is a bit out of the way for most French competitors these days.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Ian hasn't been out this year - he had a big shunt last year when his 155 V6 was punted sideways into the armco at the pit entry at Brands. He subsequently sold the car which has been repaired (although Ian thought it beyond repair) and it was out at Anglesey last weekend. I'm not sure what his plans are for this year.

Matt Daley had his 145 TS at the AROC Spring Alfa Day to help promote the ARCA series, but he hasn't yet raced it this year.

Thanks for the update Richard - I've got very out of touch with current goings-on. Haven't been to a race for a very long time.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

It's a shame as Croix really seems to be losing out these days, but I guess it is a bit out of the way for most French competitors these days.

No worry about reply, John, absolutely no worry. What is a real pity is that instead of joining their forces, french organizers have rather split in several meetings, series and so on. Very few make decisions after discussing with competitors. Really sad situation, in no way comparable to the English one.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by bauble

Now is the time for some creative thinking on the part of race organisers, there are far too many individual 'championships' in far too many categories, run by pretty much 'one interest clubs'.
I would not wish to offend anyone, organiser, club, driver by suggesting that their particular 'races' are insignificant or not worth the bother, so please bear with me;
I do attend some meetings such as the MGCC/CSCC and the spectator interest appears minimal, and there are multiple races for a wide variety of cars relevant only to the clubs concerned. While this is fine for them it does clog up the calendar, and dilute the enthusiasm for the average watcher.

Multi class races to ensure there is always a full grid, less emphasis on 'Championships', and more Formula Libre events might help. Usually for any 'class' there are rarely more than two or three genuine contenders for the overall win, most are out there because they enjoy racing their car. If clubs combined to host a two day meeting with races for mixed categories this might generate more interest for paying spectators. Back in the fifties the Boxing Day Brands Hatch Meetings would feature something out of the ordinary. I remember one race that had three different championship all on the same grid with each starting one after the other at differing times to reflect the expected lap times, Minis, Renault 5's and ?. Great fun to watch, a varied field, close racing amongst each class and against the other cars.

To be honest a grid of MG Metros is not one to stir the blood, and can be of interest only the drivers themselves.

Personally I would also favour more longer races with driver changes, pit stops, and a full circuit. The Birkett can hold interest for six hours as the cars are constantly changing, and the variety of cars on track is good for watching and must make the job of the driver even more so.

Just my own ideas, but I have been attending motor sport meetings for well over sixty years, and know what I like.

Where's me 'at?

Interesting views but we have to accept that motorsport is a minority interest these days and not politically acceptable!

Or is it? The spectators for the Motorsport News/ MSVR circuit rally championship are good- what do they do differently?

I know a chap in the village who goes to a foreign GP every year - last year it was Singapore - and watches the GPs all the time and yet has NEVER been to Donington Park despite living one mile away. I keep saying that he will see more overtaking in a single club race than a whole season of F1 but what do I know?

I will give him a ticket when I race there with CSCC.

However, as has been pointed out, club racing is not for the benefit of the spectators and 40 min races etc are difficult to follow. Still more enjoyable than a 2 hour GP, though.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by andy97

However, as has been pointed out, club racing is not for the benefit of the spectators and 40 min races etc are difficult to follow. Still more enjoyable than a 2 hour GP, though.

Club racing has never, really, been for the benefit of the punters. Going back 50 years, it mattered not a jot to me whether there were spectators or not.

However, having said that and knowing that times were completely different back then, most club meetings attracted big crowds, week in, week out. And they were there to watch us mere amateurs racing and to inspect our cars, talk to us and even ask for our autographs (why I'll never know). One of my sons actually has a photo somewhere of me in the paddock at Brands signing programmes for a queue people; my only claim to fame!

But the grandstands and banks would be packed, and at Brands for example, the grass parking between Druids and Clearways (was that called South Bank?) was always full. And it wasn't only at Brands, because it is close to London. Snetterton was always busy, as was Oulton. And Mallory always attracted big crowds.

[Peter Mallett]

But you couldn't go shopping on Sundays back then.

[The Fat Clerk]

But the grandstands and banks would be packed, and at Brands for example, the grass parking between Druids and Clearways (was that called South Bank?) was always full. [/QUOTE]



I counted 5 cars on South Bank @ the MG meeting last Sunday and one of those was a Jam Sandwich X5, which only hung around for an hour or so.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I counted 5 cars on South Bank @ the MG meeting last Sunday and one of those was a Jam Sandwich X5, which only hung around for an hour or so.

I was one of those (NOT the X5!) on the old rallycross part of South Bank and I was surprised at how few people there were spectating last weekend. Mind you it was only around 5°C or below not including the wind chill...

It would be interesting to know how the entry levels would look if some of the entrants decided to cut back on their activities - even if you exclude the Equipe double headers, some vehicles were out in four or five different races.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But you couldn't go shopping on Sundays back then.

And you didn't have 24hr, hundreds of channels TV not internet that gets you to hundreds, l indeed thousands, of hours of Motor Sport videos to suit all tastes.

And, especially in the South East, the population was more likely to e alinged with having an interest in traditional styles of motor sport than it would be today.

If you recall a decade ago when Renault were running their free World Series events the people would make the effort to some and take a look.

That didn't seem to translate into long term interest though.

These days you could probably get more people to spectate at an Electric bicycle race.

[delta]

Yep it’s a great shame there is Sunday shopping .

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by delta

Yep it’s a great shame there is Sunday shopping .

Is that because Mrs Delta drags you around the shops when you are not otherwise occupied? Don't you enjoy retail therapy?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But the grandstands and banks would be packed, and at Brands for example, the grass parking between Druids and Clearways (was that called South Bank?) was always full. And it wasn't only at Brands, because it is close to London. Snetterton was always busy, as was Oulton. And Mallory always attracted big crowds.

And don't forget Chrystal Palace, that was just the same absolutely packed !
In the 60s a mate of mine had an enormous Pontiac "yank tank" and when you had to pay per person on the gate that included the car, he used to drive in and pay for himself but 5 or 6 others (me included) would be "crammed" in the boot after climbing in just up the road
It was sometimes "interesting" as most of us had been on the beer on the Saturday night

[Mike Harte]

Whilst talking about there being plenty of spectators at a clubbie, I have vivid memories of my first race at Snetterton. In qualifying (no free practice in those days) I could only manage one lap at full chat before the spark plugs started burning out, causing serious misfiring. As a result, I qualified right at the back of a mixed grid of Special Saloons ranging from the under 1 litres right up to the biggest bangers.

In the time between that session and the race, Bert Avard who always oversaw the well-being of Roger Taylor et al, came over with enough Autolite Racing Plugs, that Boreham had made especially, and told us to use them instead of the Champion tractor plugs (as he called them).

As a result, on the first lap of the race, I had managed to pass the entire field by the time we had reached the end of the Norwich Straight by dint of the fact that it wasn't quite as long when the engine was fully on song as it was when it was misfiring.

My abiding memory is of seeing a packed grandstand right in front of me still with my foot flat on the loud pedal, and thinking to myself, 'Oh ****, how the hell am I going to stop this bloody thing'. Having slammed on the foot brake, yanked up the hand brake and shoved it into 2nd gear and said a very, very quick prayer, I found myself having done a 180 degrees and facing a full grid of cars going every which way around me. And they all missed me.

I would imagine that there were a quite few relieved people in that stand that day. And I didn't even finish last in the race, either.

And I learnt where the proper braking point was!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Whilst talking about there being plenty of spectators at a clubbie, I have vivid memories of my first race at Snetterton. In qualifying (no free practice in those days) I could only manage one lap at full chat before the spark plugs started burning out, causing serious misfiring. As a result, I qualified right at the back of a mixed grid of Special Saloons ranging from the under 1 litres right up to the biggest bangers.

In the time between that session and the race, Bert Avard who always oversaw the well-being of Roger Taylor et al, came over with enough Autolite Racing Plugs, that Boreham had made especially, and told us to use them instead of the Champion tractor plugs (as he called them).

As a result, on the first lap of the race, I had managed to pass the entire field by the time we had reached the end of the Norwich Straight by dint of the fact that it wasn't quite as long when the engine was fully on song as it was when it was misfiring.

My abiding memory is of seeing a packed grandstand right in front of me still with my foot flat on the loud pedal, and thinking to myself, 'Oh ****, how the hell am I going to stop this bloody thing'. Having slammed on the foot brake, yanked up the hand brake and shoved it into 2nd gear and said a very, very quick prayer, I found myself having done a 180 degrees and facing a full grid of cars going every which way around me. And they all missed me.

I would imagine that there were a quite few relieved people in that stand that day. And I didn't even finish last in the race, either.

And I learnt where the proper braking point was!

I think that's a brilliant way of putting it Mike! :beer