Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10 Jan 2021, 22:25 (Ref:4028041)   #736
Just Do It!
Veteran
 
Just Do It!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 4,299
Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
A thesis could be written on why people change leisure pursuits away from what previous generations did. One huge impact on motor sport in this country is the implosion happening in karting, cutting the roots out of motor sport. The knock on effect will be felt through the next decade initially and that has already begun.
Karting in NZ had, I'm pretty sure, less than 1000 race licence holders at one stage. It was rather sad to see as we had massive fields in the mid-1990's. We had three classes at our kart club that had close to track limit fields. The KT 100 was the engine of the day.

Later on, there was a move to more international categories which escalated costs massively and alienated a huge amount of kart racers who simply did it for the love and fun of the sport. A guy I know was doing an "arrive and drive" deal, for his son, although he owned all the gear. He knocked it on the head when it got to around $2500 a meeting.
Just Do It! is offline  
__________________
Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2021, 22:28 (Ref:4028043)   #737
Just Do It!
Veteran
 
Just Do It!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 4,299
Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
V8 Fireworks would be a close to more accurate representation of wider motor racing fans in Australia.

Not just that, but he gives supercars a go according to his quote. Outside of Bathurst the majority of fans in this country mostly ignore supercars.

F1 is where motor racing interest in Australia has been fueled, and for close to 40 years now. But it's not quantifiable because it's not a part of domestic racing. This is an oversight of numerous posters on here.

F1 is "eurocentric" (like with general motoring), and if a eurocentric class was introduced to Australia, it'll get a following. This has been the case even with the finishing of super touring, but there's never really been good admin for domestic racing culture here.
Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3? As stand-alone events, I wonder what their track attendance was like?
Just Do It! is offline  
__________________
Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2021, 00:18 (Ref:4028065)   #738
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,064
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Do It! View Post
Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3?
Formula Holden would have been a lot more successful as Australia's premier open-wheel class with the proper 3L V8s (be it Judd, Mugen-Honda whatever) instead of those god-awful Buick V6s IMO...

Just look at the far greater success of Japanese Formula 3000!

Australians like V8s, V8s are supposed to be raspy and have a high-pitched wail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIp_AKK7gp0
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2021, 00:31 (Ref:4028068)   #739
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 3,293
Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!Tourer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
A thesis could be written on why people change leisure pursuits away from what previous generations did. One huge impact on motor sport in this country is the implosion happening in karting, cutting the roots out of motor sport. The knock on effect will be felt through the next decade initially and that has already begun.
Maybe, except the implosion is only in NSW and the rest of the states are now seeing significantly increased entries to club and state level competition - 1st round of the Australian Kart Championship just postponed due to Covid with just under 300 entries already received.

At some point the sport is likely to re-unite in NSW (as it has done before, this division seems to pop up in NSW from time to time) and although hurt, will start to grow in that state again but will be behind the other states for some time most likely.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2021, 01:08 (Ref:4028078)   #740
benny41
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 23
benny41 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Id argue that australian motorsport suffers a bit from having too many different classes / variations that all in all are pretty similar. With a relatively small population base. you end up with plenty of classes with few cars on track which leads to not very good racing.

I also think the challenge of having cars that are so reliant on having both a knowledge of mechanical and electrical systems is challenging. Id also say that in general younger people are looking at smaller houses which gennerally doesnt allow for a trailer/racecar setup easily.
benny41 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2021, 04:50 (Ref:4028099)   #741
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,601
Casper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Maybe, except the implosion is only in NSW and the rest of the states are now seeing significantly increased entries to club and state level competition - 1st round of the Australian Kart Championship just postponed due to Covid with just under 300 entries already received.

At some point the sport is likely to re-unite in NSW (as it has done before, this division seems to pop up in NSW from time to time) and although hurt, will start to grow in that state again but will be behind the other states for some time most likely.
By implosion I mean the total national grid. When we first started karting the total numbers were slightly north of 10,000 competitors which it is nowhere near now for a whole raft of reasons and bad management is only one but a crucial one.
Casper is online now  
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2021, 05:45 (Ref:4028317)   #742
Tony C
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Gold Coast
Posts: 286
Tony C should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Formula Holden would have been a lot more successful as Australia's premier open-wheel class with the proper 3L V8s (be it Judd, Mugen-Honda whatever) instead of those god-awful Buick V6s IMO...

Just look at the far greater success of Japanese Formula 3000!

Australians like V8s, V8s are supposed to be raspy and have a high-pitched wail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIp_AKK7gp0
Australia could not afford to run the original F3000 engines which is why they were converted to the V6. You can dream as much as you like but entrants pockets are only so deep and the more expensive the category the less entrants.
Tony C is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2021, 00:10 (Ref:4028847)   #743
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,064
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony C View Post
You can dream as much as you like
2 litre, four-cylinder, hybrid, 600hp -- this is the future of sports coupes but the Supercars Gen 3 platform won't cater to it, even though Gen 3 is supposed to cater to market-relevant sports coupes.



At least the body will fit over the roll hoop, but would Polestar really come back to race a V8, when Geely have said clearly that hybridisation and then electric is the future?

Quote:
Maximum system outputs are 600bhp and 737lb ft, and on electricity alone, Polestar claims a 93-mile (150km) range.
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/polestar/1
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2021, 06:11 (Ref:4028884)   #744
Juarez Jed
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 514
Juarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony C View Post
Australia could not afford to run the original F3000 engines which is why they were converted to the V6. You can dream as much as you like but entrants pockets are only so deep and the more expensive the category the less entrants.


That was Big Darrell Eastlake's continual whinge that they weren't true F3000's and as you said, the V6 3800 was the only thing that kept them even remotely affordable as a national category.
Juarez Jed is offline  
__________________
home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway"
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2021, 09:39 (Ref:4029397)   #745
2 litre Touring Car Star
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Australia
Posts: 188
2 litre Touring Car Star User had had their licence endorsed2 litre Touring Car Star User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Do It! View Post
Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3? As stand-alone events, I wonder what their track attendance was like?
I'm sure what the where you're getting at with the question?
2 litre Touring Car Star is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 23:28 (Ref:4029724)   #746
Just Do It!
Veteran
 
Just Do It!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 4,299
Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
I'm sure what the where you're getting at with the question?
Sorry, I may've overlooked the pay drivers, and speaking of sensical questions, please refer to quote above ^^^^^^

Did F3 or Formula Holden/Brabham ever run as stand-alone meetings and did anyone attend?

There you go - same, but different
Just Do It! is offline  
__________________
Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 06:37 (Ref:4029793)   #747
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,483
chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Do It! View Post
Sorry, I may've overlooked the pay drivers, and speaking of sensical questions, please refer to quote above ^^^^^^

Did F3 or Formula Holden/Brabham ever run as stand-alone meetings and did anyone attend?

There you go - same, but different
And the answer is yes, Formula Brabham in 1991.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzy8am0QAh4

Did anyone attend? - no.

Formula type racing, outside of the AGP and IndyCar at Surfers, has not attracted crowds since the late seventies.
chavez is offline  
__________________
Real race cars don't have doors.
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 01:42 (Ref:4029950)   #748
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,064
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
And the answer is yes, Formula Brabham in 1991.

Did anyone attend? - no.

Formula type racing, outside of the AGP and IndyCar at Surfers, has not attracted crowds since the late seventies.
That's because Formula Brabham cars used those Buick 90-degree V6s that sound like a wet fart, instead of the wailing V8s used in AGP and Indycar.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 19 Jan 2021 at 01:47.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 06:06 (Ref:4029959)   #749
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,601
Casper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
That's because Formula Brabham cars used those Buick 90-degree V6s that sound like a wet fart, instead of the wailing V8s used in AGP and Indycar.
Do you really think that engine sound alone was the sole cause of the series failure and there was absolutely no other reason?
Casper is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 06:29 (Ref:4029962)   #750
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,064
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Do you really think that engine sound alone was the sole cause of the series failure and there was absolutely no other reason?
If all the top drivers and race teams in Australia (plus plenty of top imports like Magnussen, Vandoorne etc) raced open wheel cars, ones which sound good, I think it could be very successful indeed, and not cost anymore than running a 3A Touring Car for a season.

Of course they would be unable to race at Bathurst because of safety issues, but circuits like Eastern Creek, Phillip Island and The Bend would all be excellent for hosting state Grand Prixs. Heck such a category would be more than sufficient to headline the South Australian Grand Prix at the Adelaide Parklands, and the Queensland Grand Prix at the Surfers Paradise Circuit.

People love (proper) open wheel racing, it is a lot of fun! S5000 is a good try but it's not quite there, it's too obvious they are modified F3 cars with Ford small block V8s, and I don't believe the fuel tank capacity (which has not been expanded from the F3) is sufficient to run a 305km Grand Prix.

GP2 regularly produces exceptional close racing, and it only costs $1.5m AUD per car per season (about the same as running a Supercar), so a similar Formula 3000-type class could easily be Australia's (and Australasia's) premier circuit racing category IMO. Races in Malaysia at the world class Sepang circuit, Thailand at the Buriram Circuit, Indonesia at the Sentul circuit and so on, would only add to the calibre of Australasia's premier open-wheel Grand Prix series.

Formula Holden by comparison was too much of a cut-priced, bare bones minor class -- some of this self-inflicted by running a meagre grid of ancient 8-year-old Reynards with Buick V6s that sound awful -- instead of a flagship premier F3000/Grand Prix series of a higher status, headline 305km Grand Prixs at Adelaide/Gold Coast, and higher commercial relevance than the ATCC.

...Who wouldn't want to watch Hartley, van Gisbergen, Reid, McLaughlin, Whincup, Halliday, Albon, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Winterbottom, Vips, Mostert, de Silvestro and co banging wheels in Australiasia's premier open-wheel class in cars plastered with brands like Penrite, Shell, Red Bull etc!?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 19 Jan 2021 at 06:52.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LMDh (DPi regulations version 2.0) NaBUru38 North American Racing 126 Yesterday 09:05
New F1 Team - Panthers seeking to join grid for 2022 karting Formula One 29 31 Aug 2019 22:57
[WEC] Audi to Return in 2022? rdjones ACO Regulated Series 21 28 Sep 2018 21:23
Gen IV B/Mark IRL Indycar Series 14 22 Jul 2003 05:33


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.