Category engine

[Razor]

A few crate engines (say three: V8, TTV6, TIL4) built by Supercars technical team with a engine person per manufacturer to help guide the build. (One from Ford, BMW, etc for example)

[S griffin]

Keep it simple I say, let the manufacturers build it to the regulations and we’ll see a good formula come of it

[Casper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Keep it simple I say, let the manufacturers build it to the regulations and we’ll see a good formula come of it

Why would the European/American manufacturers want to join a small category on the other side of the world with very small volumes in the domestic market, it simply does not make sense and stopped makng sense when local production stopped. The whole ethos of what made SC a good category went down the slot with the production closures but I don't think that penny has dropped yet even a few years down the track.

[S griffin]

I think it might have to take a while for things to settle down. It will have to keep things simple for now. We have had good times, but they won't last and we might have to start from zero. We just need to focus on survival for now

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Keep it simple I say, let the manufacturers build it to the regulations and we’ll see a good formula come of it

The concern I have with is that 10:1 compression is too low for a racing engine, 7500rpm rev limit is too low for a racing engine [Brockie was revving the Holden 308 to 8000+ in the 80's after all], and banning variable timing and direct injection is just silly. Your approach is not completely terrible, but it was VERY unfair that Volvo were given a lot more concessions than Nissan (Volvo were allowed a much smaller bore and much longer stroke than the other engines, which was much better suited to the low 7500rpm rev limit).

More cutting-edge categories like Japanese SuperGT and Formula One are pushing ahead with turbulent jet injection (and the ultra-lean super-efficient combustion that goes with it), meanwhile Supercars is stuck on port injection and 10:1 compression and (presumably) the horribly poor thermal efficiency that goes with that!

With a "have at it" approach, BMW and Audi spent 80 million euro on just engine development alone for their 2L turbo DTM engines.

Audi 610hp DTM engine:


It's rather ugly isn't it? But it is 85 kg, which is a good ~40 kg lighter than a production-based four cylinder engine... So there's that I guess.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Your approach is not completely terrible, but it was VERY unfair that Volvo were given a lot more concessions than Nissan (Volvo were allowed a much smaller bore and much longer stroke than the other engines, which was much better suited to the low 7500rpm rev limit).

Wasn't unfair, both Volvo and Erebus asked for and received dispensation on different points, the Nissan team wasn't smart enough to crunch the numbers and ask. Racing is as much about politics and intelligent interpretation of rules as it is engineering.

GRM won in the Volvo, and they won in Holdens.
Erebus won in the faux Benz, and they have been very competitive since.

The Kellys Holdens never threatened and unfortunately the mediocrity continued with the Nissans. Their engine was never particularly competitive and its clear post-Mustang that the car probably carried aerodynamic deficiencies that the team were not smart enough to identify, until the Mustang forced the realisation.

There can only be technical parity; it doesn't make a given team a winner.

[Armco Bender]

I want big,noisey,flame belching V8's that suck up carbon credits and melt polar ice caps.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

I want big,noisey,flame belching V8's that suck up carbon credits and melt polar ice caps.

V8Utes, NZV8s and TA2 proved you don't have to spend $200k an engine to get it, but Supercars didn't change because of the existing investment.

[S griffin]

Those are different, but V8s have showed how good they can do it, with a few minor tweaks here and there

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Those are different, but V8s have showed how good they can do it, with a few minor tweaks here and there

$150,000 each for a heavily restricted engine is a good job well done!?

Even with Ford BOSS and Chevrolet small block engines, other categories can make more power for less money...

[champcarman]

why not a spec hybrid system, more in line with other categories, WEC, Indycar, DTM and in the near future even NASCAR.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by champcarman

why not a spec hybrid system, more in line with other categories, WEC, Indycar, DTM and in the near future even NASCAR.

If they find funding the present drive train difficult then if a hybrid system is employed it will add on top of those expenses and the complexity and recruitment of suitable people to run them will be even higher. They either stick with dino fuel or go full electric which would be cheaper and brings instant parity but the fans won't accept that of course. Maybe there is a slim chance that going full electric would attract manufacturers, a pretty vague chance though.

[Armco Bender]

I'd rather forgive Australia for the underarm bowl than watch Electric Super Cars....

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

I'd rather forgive Australia for the underarm bowl than watch Electric Super Cars....

Mmmm, paint and dry spring to mind.
Quite frankly some of these teams need to wake up and smell the coffee before this along with some other major series disappear altogether. I honestly believe that the true financial implications of the pandemic are yet to bite.

[Mixer]

Both Supercars and DTM down to 1 manufacturer at the end of this year.

Opportunity?

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