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Old 13 Jun 2011, 12:20 (Ref:2898014)   #1
Al Weyman
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Forward facing rain lights in F1?

After this weekends proceedings especially the clash between Lewis and Jenson is it not about time as we have to have in club saloon racing and the Le Mans cars have, that F1 cars were fitted with forward facing white rain lights as well as the rear light? May save a few quid in the long run!
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 12:28 (Ref:2898017)   #2
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It'd be sensible, but on the flip side i'm sure a few of 'em wouldn't mind a moan about the lack of visibility it'd cause

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Old 13 Jun 2011, 12:40 (Ref:2898024)   #3
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TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It's an interesting idea. I suspect that it wouldn't work because the spray behind an F1 car is too dense, but it's still worth a try.

Isn't it odd that in a hi-tech sport like this, they still rely on a couple of bits of reflective glass vibrating away like mad to try to understand what's happening behind? What about a rearward facing video camera feeding a screen on the dash or wheel?

Or why not take the concept beyond the visual? Use radar or ultrasonic sensors and feed the data to the driver as beeps in his earpieces. Beeps in one ear: there's a car on that rear corner. Beeps in both ears: there's a car dead behind. Faster the beeps, the closer the other car. Just like reverse parking sensors. Seemples.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 13:15 (Ref:2898054)   #4
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Would be a logical idea, actually - they could easily be stuck on the nose cone and/or front wing endplates.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 13:18 (Ref:2898057)   #5
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I have had that same thought but with lights or something similar on the wheel for LMPs. With all the electronics in the cars already, and GT teams have proven it works with a rearview cam (see Corvettes GT1/2 entries), there has to be someway to Marelli or McLaren to develop something to work with the standard ECU. And in the era of safety first, I'm surprised the FIA hasn't already mandated something similar.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 14:46 (Ref:2898118)   #6
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you would also think those are the types of technologies that would have direct relevance to their road car development...i would even guess that the manu's might have an advantage here if their road car divisions are already working on those ideas.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 15:26 (Ref:2898138)   #7
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Maybe they could have lights more to be seen by others (in front opponent mirrors, for example) than to light their way.
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 16:06 (Ref:2898167)   #8
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Thats what I had in mind Lennon, a pair of small high intensity lights maybe flashing in the same way as the rear light. We are required in saloons to have working headlights but in our Classic Thunder class these can be changed to small high intensity lights, the object is to be seen by the car in front. Actually I was quite amazed at the last race I did recently, it was a Saloon vs Sports with the CSCC and the heavens opened in qually but what surprized me was how few drivers felt it neccessary or could be bothered to turn on their head lights and high intensity rear light, I finished the session wondering just what they thought they get the devices scrutinnered for every race!
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 18:37 (Ref:2898291)   #9
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Superbright LED DRLs in the front wing end fences?
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Old 13 Jun 2011, 19:02 (Ref:2898301)   #10
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Flashing amber signals for when a driver wants to pass the car ahead?

Bigger mirrors (or rearward facing camera/sensors) and the words: "Lewis is right on your arse" coming over the radio would do it for me.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 02:22 (Ref:2898531)   #11
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Maybe they could have lights more to be seen by others (in front opponent mirrors, for example) than to light their way.
Good idea, probably should use yellow as it is less reflective in mist/spray.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 10:42 (Ref:2898690)   #12
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Given Rockenfeller's Audi was lit up like a christmas tree with super bright LEDs had closed the door on him at Le Mans resulting in his accident, I can't see forward facing LEDs on an F1 car prevent a Button/Hamilton type incident in F1.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 10:52 (Ref:2898700)   #13
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OH, and stick in a windscreen and wiper to aid forward visibility, actually could just put a roof over the whole cockpit and a door on either side.

Could also cover over the wheels to stop interlocking incidents.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 10:59 (Ref:2898711)   #14
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Given Rockenfeller's Audi was lit up like a christmas tree with super bright LEDs had closed the door on him at Le Mans resulting in his accident, I can't see forward facing LEDs on an F1 car prevent a Button/Hamilton type incident in F1.
It was also in the dark which an F1 race will not be. I am sure the driver of the car he hit did see him but thought he was correct which IMHO he was, taking the racing line, couldnt the guy who hit hold back for a couple of seconds in a 24 hour race, thats just bad driving but I am sure discussed elsewhere.

@ Magnet on, my point of the post is most other formula or at least the ones I know of i.e. saloons, gt's etc have to have the lights so why not single seaters?
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 11:02 (Ref:2898717)   #15
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@ Magnet on, my point of the post is most other formula or at least the ones I know of i.e. saloons, gt's etc have to have the lights so why not single seaters?
Yeah, I agree, I should have added a couple of sarcasm smilies to my post! I would think that if there can be camera points mandated on the front wing then lights could be mandated too and then let the aero guys work around them.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 12:07 (Ref:2898782)   #16
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I've thought about this often, why not flashing white led's forward facing on the front face of each mirror?

Also surely F1 could incorporate "heads up" technology into the visor of the drivers helmet so they can see everything behind them from a couple of cameras incorporated into each of the rear wing uprights?

Just think of the amount of info they could get in the "heads up" display, instead of everything incorporated on the centre plate of a tiny steering wheel like it is now?

Surely not to big of a task for the F1 boffins?
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 12:26 (Ref:2898797)   #17
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It was also in the dark which an F1 race will not be. I am sure the driver of the car he hit did see him but thought he was correct which IMHO he was, taking the racing line, couldnt the guy who hit hold back for a couple of seconds in a 24 hour race, thats just bad driving but I am sure discussed elsewhere.
We are talking about lights in reduced advisability conditions, heavy rain and darkness both fit that category. The point I was making was that even if he saw Rockenfeller, the lights were such that he couldn't or didn't judge the distance correctly, and realise fact that Rocky was so close that he was coming up the inside.

Compare with Button and Hamilton, with lights, who is to say that Button wouldn't find himself in a similar scenario where by he could see the lights but couldn't judge the distance, and took his line (which he did) resulting in the same accident.

As for its a 24 hour race and could wait a few more seconds... the Button Hamilton incident happened on lap 8 of 70. Why not wait until the next lap, or the back straight again.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 18:04 (Ref:2898967)   #18
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Why? They've dealt with it for the past 60 years, it's fine as is.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 22:31 (Ref:2899115)   #19
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Why? They've dealt with it for the past 60 years, it's fine as is.

Where I thought yellow forward facing lights would be particularly useful is when a car has spun and is facing the wrong way, the cars behind it would be able to see it through the spray and hopefully be able to avoid running into the stopped car.

As for it has been fine for 60 years ... don't you think we should strive for progress otherwise we'd still be racing chariots, or maybe just crawling through the undergrowth.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 22:42 (Ref:2899126)   #20
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Where I thought yellow forward facing lights would be particularly useful is when a car has spun and is facing the wrong way, the cars behind it would be able to see it through the spray and hopefully be able to avoid running into the stopped car.

As for it has been fine for 60 years ... don't you think we should strive for progress otherwise we'd still be racing chariots, or maybe just crawling through the undergrowth.
I think everything should stay the same was as it was in the 80's. Everything looked, and sounded so much better, across all forms of racing.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 23:01 (Ref:2899136)   #21
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I think everything should stay the same was as it was in the 80's. Everything looked, and sounded so much better, across all forms of racing.
Agreed with you there, but racing is much safer now which is good.
Having said that, I think last eeks Canadian GP is the best F1 race I have ever seen!
Seeing people killed and maybe worse maimed in a sport you love is horrible (I don't know how to express this sentiment strongly enough).

Anything that can be done to prevent needless injury must be done!
That does NOT mean banning the sport!
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Old 16 Jun 2011, 02:41 (Ref:2899919)   #22
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I think everything should stay the same was as it was in the 80's. Everything looked, and sounded so much better, across all forms of racing.
Totally agree. Keeping only the security issues. Also bring back iron breakes and less restriction to car designs.
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Old 16 Jun 2011, 17:59 (Ref:2900423)   #23
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You are living in the past some of you, thats what you have historic F1 for if you want to watch that sort of 80's thing. Its all about progress and development surely.
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Old 16 Jun 2011, 18:56 (Ref:2900481)   #24
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Old 16 Jun 2011, 19:42 (Ref:2900509)   #25
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You are living in the past some of you, thats what you have historic F1 for if you want to watch that sort of 80's thing. Its all about progress and development surely.
Says the guy who races a classic Camaro, priceless. :P
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