Bottas to Alfa? bye bye Kimi

[wnut]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I was watching the Dutch GP and wondering just how much more difficult it would have been for Verstappen, if Russell (or whoever) in the 2nd Mercedes was genuniely in the mix for the win on a 1 stop strategy. No longer would the leader simply cover off the single Mercedes by reacting to the pit-stops one lap later. (By the same logic, the second Red Bull could also play a similair role).

It will be interesting to see how Russell gets on. So far this season the duel for the WDC has been just that, and there have only been a few occurances when the respective teammates have caused a major headache for Verstappen and Hamilton.

I was thinking the same thing, if Russell is right on Hamilton's pace, I don't think that there is much room for Verstappen to win with one of them running off into the distance and another running interference.

[bathurst77]

Maybe merc have been throwing us red herrings all this time and will do a quick bait and switch and sign someone other than Gorgeous George.

Imagine if on friday at monza they announce 2022 will see Lewis new team mate

max verstappen

naaahhh im just being mischievous..
or am i?

[Greem]

Alonso would be even funnier

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Maybe merc have been throwing us red herrings all this time and will do a quick bait and switch and sign someone other than Gorgeous George.

Imagine if on friday at monza they announce 2022 will see Lewis new team mate

max verstappen

naaahhh im just being mischievous..
or am i?

Love to be at the meeting where they tell one of them that he is number 2.

[Aysedasi]

It's an interesting thought. I wonder to what extent, if any, the decision would be coloured by whether Lewis wins the WDC again? One assumes that Mercedes are thinking longer term succession planning which makes it very uncertain (in my eyes) that Lewis would be in a position to insist on #1 status. Mercedes know George can drive their car fast and can challenge for wins. Lewis was apparently miffed at losing his (largely) compliant team mate which also suggests that he doesn't think that George will be saddled with a wholly supportive role. It frankly doesn't matter too much to Mercedes which one of them wins, as long as they don't end up losing the WDC by in-fighting. Could be an interesting season!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Lewis was apparently miffed at losing his (largely) compliant team mate which also suggests that he doesn't think that George will be saddled with a wholly supportive role.

I do love this concept, bourne from an 'unknown source'. Makes me giggle every time when the media spew out stuff like this which is lapped up by the masses.

Thing is, with Lewis more than most, you can tell when hes unhappy...everytime hes asked about George, he is calm, smiling etc so while ive no doubt he would rather have the status quo, he probably understands more than most that there has to be a sucession so the team can continue going forward...of which he will remain to be a part after retiring from the seat.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I do love this concept, bourne from an 'unknown source'. Makes me giggle every time when the media spew out stuff like this which is lapped up by the masses.

Thing is, with Lewis more than most, you can tell when hes unhappy...everytime hes asked about George, he is calm, smiling etc so while ive no doubt he would rather have the status quo, he probably understands more than most that there has to be a sucession so the team can continue going forward...of which he will remain to be a part after retiring from the seat.

True, just media gossip, I dare say, but if I was in Lewis' shoes, I don't think I would relish a battle with my teammate right at the time when Max and RBR have found the pace to beat me.

[S griffin]

Merc need to secure their future though, so they couldn't wait any longer to put Russell into one of their seats. Who knows how much longer Lewis will go on for?

[Lancsbreaker]

The Times today reports that Russell will be told that he will have to do what is expected of him next year - and whilst the team-mates will be able to race against each other there should be no risk of the cars colliding....


Pretty much what you'd expect - a season as a dedicated wingman, running interference as required, whilst ready to step up to secure a win if any issue for Hamilton, before probably taking over as team leader when Hamilton steps down.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

The Times today reports that Russell will be told that he will have to do what is expected of him next year - and whilst the team-mates will be able to race against each other there should be no risk of the cars colliding....


Pretty much what you'd expect - a season as a dedicated wingman, running interference as required, whilst ready to step up to secure a win if any issue for Hamilton, before probably taking over as team leader when Hamilton steps down.

When is Hamilton likely to step down? I can see him there for three more years. Will Russell want to be Hamilton's dedicated wingman during that time? I wouldn't have thought so.

[steve_r]

Russell has landed himself a seat in the best or second best car on the grid. Whether he is no.1 or no.2, I would expect him to be happy. He now has the opportunity to properly measure himself against a top drawer driver (no disrespect to Latifi or Kubica).

Like LeClerc, Russell has been known to make mistakes. Perhaps he has been unlucky at times, and perhaps he has been guilty of overdriving the uncompetitive Williams at times. Now is the time to step up. That one-off drive for Merc last year was so impressive, I am look forward to seeing how he gets on.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

The Times today reports that Russell will be told that he will have to do what is expected of him next year - and whilst the team-mates will be able to race against each other there should be no risk of the cars colliding....


Pretty much what you'd expect - a season as a dedicated wingman, running interference as required, whilst ready to step up to secure a win if any issue for Hamilton, before probably taking over as team leader when Hamilton steps down.

I think thats fair, having said that, hamilton was told the same in 2007 and signed as a number 2 driver....or so alonso thought!

[Aysedasi]

Mercedes will soon gauge where their 'loyalties' should lie. If George turns out to be no better than Valteri as a capable 'wing man', so be it. But if he's regularly pushing Lewis and beating him in qually (which is one of GW's strengths), would Mercedes really want to hold him back? Lewis is a 'divider', the epitome of the 'Marmite' champion. Loads of people love him, but boy, a hell of a lot of people don't, being unable to see past what they don't like about his private life, his dress sense (bizarrely) and his causes. George, on the other hand, looks to be a pretty uncomplicated young hotshoe. Take your pick....

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I think thats fair, having said that, hamilton was told the same in 2007 and signed as a number 2 driver....or so alonso thought!

Its amazing how a young talent or the right personality can change a garage and thus the focus of a team.

After a bit of a let down in his one off last season and his approach (post incident with Bottas), has no doubt endeared himself to the Merc squad.they may even feel they owe him.

He's for sure going to get an early release and will spend his winter at HQ (something successful encumbants rarely do at their age)...lets see if he can make this his team by 2022 testing?

[Anyopenroad]

F1 is a pretty ruthless world. If Russell starts the season with a pole or two and drives off into the distance, the dynamic will change quickly enough. What Merc won’t allow to happen is the two of them taking points off each other while someone else sneaks through to take the title, which is of course exactly what happened in 2007.

[chillibowl]

its such a great sporting story that its really a cliché at this point but still a young hotshot joining a team with a superstar who may or may not be aging out is such a compelling story line!

if the story that Netflix/Drive to Survive was invited in to film the contract signing is true, then one can only assume that they will want this narrative to feature heavily for 2022.

whether its real or manufactured, we are going to get fireworks next year lol!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

whether its real or manufactured, we are going to get fireworks next year lol!

Let's hope so! A rivalry neutered from the outset by team orders is not what we want! (And it's what we want that's the most important thing!).

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Let's hope so! A rivalry neutered from the outset by team orders is not what we want! (And it's what we want that's the most important thing!).

history repeats itself....first time (2007) as a tragedy and then second time (2022) as a farce!

no doubt we will get what we deserve!

[bathurst77]

63 is very young, but has already proven his ability. 44 is nearing the end of his career and has achieved everything possible (is there a track they race at regularly that he hasnt had at least 1 win at?).

I think GR should be prepared and happy to be #2 and wing man for lewis for a couple of years or so, accepting "letting lewis win" when needed, even if it hurts. Slowly ingraining himself with the team, building a relationship with the engineers and management, learning everything from lewis.

In a while Lewis will retire as GOAT, look for a new challenge, maybe a dad, running a team, developing new talent in less privileged kids, or drive his various "causes", or who knows, (darts anyone?)

Then GR can naturally step up for a long reign as team leader. He just has to hope merc stay in f1 and the team keeps producing the best car for a long time.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Then GR can naturally step up for a long reign as team leader. He just has to hope merc stay in f1 and the team keeps producing the best car for a long time.

That's the kicker isn't it.
Neither of those are guaranteed, which is why he needs to be all guns blazing in 2022, especially if Merc produce another race-winning championship contender.


It doesn't seem to be very common for a team to dominate across multiple big rule changes, so if Mercedes manage to do that, you'd be daft to not make hay while the sun shines.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

It doesn't seem to be very common for a team to dominate across multiple big rule changes, so if Mercedes manage to do that, you'd be daft to not make hay while the sun shines.

I think the above will be a key factor in 2022.

1. What teams will make the best solutions?
2. Within a team, which driver will sync up well with whatever their team produces?

2022 provides a very real potential for there be some adjustments in both the team and driver pecking orders. I am not sure I think a Haas is going to demolish a Mercedes. But within the small handful of top teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren) it might be anyone's guess as to who comes out on top. And of course there is always the potential for someone to pull a Brawn like "double diffuser" idea out of nowhere and really upset the apple cart.

As to drivers, I fully expect the character of the 2022 cars to be very different than they are now. There is just too much changing for them not to be different. And as with drivers such as Ricciardo at McLaren, we see that sometimes the driver style just doesn't sync up with how the car needs to be driven. So who knows, maybe next year Ricciardo might be crushing Norris?

As to George, I think he needs to...

1. Perform no worse (at a minimum) and (at best) perform much better than Bottas has from a points perspective. Here is the current top three in the WDC. See a problem here for Valterri?

Max = 224.5
Lewis = 221.5
Valtteri = 123

Now, part of the disparity above is that they are pushing Lewis forward at the cost of Valtteri, but it should be the Mercedes pair taking wins and not Lewis and Max splitting wins (generally).

2. Not create enough on-track issues that the overall team does not haul in points (i.e. avoid 2016 levels of intra team driver drama/issues/DNFs)

I think if he does both, it would be an awesome season for him.

Note, I have given up trying to keep on topic here because we are (and have been) way off topic of Kimi and Alfa Romeo. I do agree with an earlier post that this needs to be merged into the 2022 silly season thread.

Richard

[bathurst77]

I think now the bottas-> alfa, gr -> amg is all settled and official. this thread can be locked, and anything else put in the silly season thread or a new one if its different.
Mods?

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It's an interesting thought. I wonder to what extent, if any, the decision would be coloured by whether Lewis wins the WDC again? One assumes that Mercedes are thinking longer term succession planning which makes it very uncertain (in my eyes) that Lewis would be in a position to insist on #1 status. Mercedes know George can drive their car fast and can challenge for wins. Lewis was apparently miffed at losing his (largely) compliant team mate which also suggests that he doesn't think that George will be saddled with a wholly supportive role. It frankly doesn't matter too much to Mercedes which one of them wins, as long as they don't end up losing the WDC by in-fighting. Could be an interesting season!

Mercedes have done the smart thing. Sure, Bottas is a decent wingman and has helped with the WCCs, but Mercedes if they kept him another year were in danger of falling behind their rivals with having a young star of the future both secured and entrenched in the team.

Ferrari - Leclerc
McLaren - Lando
RB - Max

Now George is in that group, the top 4 teams all have their future leaders sorted. We're heading into a really exciting period of F1 with this next generation.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

As Bottas has now signed for Alfa and Kimi has announced his bye bye to F1

Time to close the thread, and continue any speculation in the silly season thread