Force India 2012 - Hulkenberg in, Sutil out

gary396 · 16 Dec 2011, 16:21 (Ref:3000860)

Just noticed this on the Autosport website:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96780

steve nielsen · 16 Dec 2011, 16:28 (Ref:3000865)

everyone saw that coming ages ago

***MagnetON*** · 16 Dec 2011, 16:38 (Ref:3000872)

I'm glad that Paul is finally confirmed for 2012.

**Bononi** · 16 Dec 2011, 17:45 (Ref:3000899)

Good news indeed.

Super Hans · 16 Dec 2011, 22:08 (Ref:3001013)

A very strong young line-up. Sutil is a decent driver, but not a world-beater and I think Di Resta and The Hulk will be better in time.

strider · 16 Dec 2011, 22:47 (Ref:3001027)

The only thing that hasn't been confirmed from the original Twitter is the part about Jules Bianchi being the reserve driver. There's something about that that doesn't ring true.

**chunterer** · 16 Dec 2011, 23:22 (Ref:3001037)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

The only thing that hasn't been confirmed from the original Twitter is the part about Jules Bianchi being the reserve driver. There's something about that that doesn't ring true.

If it is definite it's a strange one. On the other hand it is also strange if it was prematurely announced and isn't true.

As for the main drivers, it's the right decision. I've little doubt that Sutil's new found pace towards the end of the season was as a result of being told he was out, or was going to have to save his drive, either way he was on a hiding to nothing because if one suddenly goes quicker with a car that has been the same for quite a while the team are obviously going to be asking serious questions about commitment etc.

Didn't something similar signal the end of Stefano Modena in 1992 at Jordan?

JeremySmith · 17 Dec 2011, 00:49 (Ref:3001058)

Some very good points you make about his performance towards the end of the season..

JeremySmith · 17 Dec 2011, 02:03 (Ref:3001078)

Which is why Williams will snap him up..

Marbot · 17 Dec 2011, 10:11 (Ref:3001140)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Which is why Williams will snap him up..

I think that he will certainly be their third driver if Barrichello stays on for his 20th season.

I also think that Sutil is a much better driver than Hulkenburg, anyway. But people keep going on about that pole position that Hulkenburg got, when for most of the season Barrichello had him well and truly owned.

**chunterer** · 17 Dec 2011, 10:35 (Ref:3001150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think that he will certainly be their third driver if Barrichello stays on for his 20th season.

I also think that Sutil is a much better driver than Hulkenburg, anyway. But people keep going on about that pole position that Hulkenburg got, when for most of the season Barrichello had him well and truly owned.

I think looking at that pole as any gauge is a bit simplistic.

Most people are surely basing their views on his performances and how he seemed to knuckle down to the task on the way up to F1 and in that first season, not just on one performance.

johntt · 17 Dec 2011, 10:35 (Ref:3001153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think that he will certainly be their third driver if Barrichello stays on for his 20th season.

I also think that Sutil is a much better driver than Hulkenburg, anyway. But people keep going on about that pole position that Hulkenburg got, when for most of the season Barrichello had him well and truly owned.

Hulkenberg is a great talent and I reckon we'll see great things from him in time. I agree about the pole last year, it was changing conditions and he was in the right place at the right time.

chillibowl · 17 Dec 2011, 21:01 (Ref:3001356)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

But people keep going on about that pole position that Hulkenburg got, when for most of the season Barrichello had him well and truly owned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think looking at that pole as any gauge is a bit simplistic.

i dont think anyone thinks or said that pole makes him the next coming of Vettel but the ability to exceed expectations does deserves special consideration imo. for a mid field team to score a pole in the modern era is epic whether it lucky or not.

Sutil had his time with a lack of results so maybe that makes him unlucky. also unlucky for him that Fisi scored that team's only pole. for whatever reason it didnt work out much like the HHF career. old comparisons are just that old. bring on the new new!

f1manoz · 18 Dec 2011, 19:10 (Ref:3001623)

Worst kept secret. Sutil will feel hard done by as he had improved his final position every year while at Force India. If he ends up at Williams then he may end up dragging them towards the front too.

mac · 18 Dec 2011, 23:56 (Ref:3001687)

Yeah, I feel for Sutil... I reckon there is no real significant difference in performance between all three of them... Whichever driver missed out was going to be very hard done by.

VIVA GT · 19 Dec 2011, 08:10 (Ref:3001771)

I feel sorry for Sutil too, I've always rated him, but apart from the last couple of races his season has been rather lack-lustre. Maybe as someone else has suggested, he only started to push because he realised his seat for next year was in doubt? If that's the case then I think he did himself no favours at all proving that he could do it when he wanted to, but hadn't bothered for the rest of the year.

NewYankee01 · 19 Dec 2011, 17:16 (Ref:3001928)

agreed sutil was good for a time especially when he had liuzzi as a teammate

but he's been stagnant, time to get him out. i like him as a driver, he's more error prone than he was when he first started or so it seems, is that possible?! force india needs a signing like fisichella again,someone who is going to make them a decent midfield team instead of what they are now. getting 5th-10th places then the next race 15th, 17th????? thank god theyve got di resta... a string as decent results maybe half the amount of sutil's for the same positions but this is his first year of f1. maybe he can push the team forward a lot more than sutil ever could?!

Flat Out Farr · 19 Dec 2011, 18:11 (Ref:3001947)

Di Resta is a no-brainer and he throroughly deserves his place for 2012.
I am pleased to see the Hulk getting another crack, but will he be a little race rusty?

I think Sutil was surprised how good P D-R was but maybe thought he would still have a seat for 2012.

Looks like Frank will be spoilt for choice:-

Perm any one of Rubens, Sutil, Senna, Petrov, Heidfield,.............

OZ_HCR32 · 20 Dec 2011, 04:58 (Ref:3002110)

Sutil didn't have a bad year, but he needed Kimi to really take him out in a few races when he was up front.

Seriously, he has been around and with a decent enough rep that when he does a solid job you dont even notice he has just brought the car home in 8th. But if Kimi was crashing him out of a good position as was the case a few years ago then his good drives become memorable.

He had another good year who had 9 points scoring finishes compared to his rookie team mates 8 points finishes, but didnt shine in any of the wet races like he used to.

Fact is a great drive could get lost in a team like FI. Unless you are up in the front 6 positions regularly where a 2 second mistake can be the difference between a 3rd and a 5th than you are not going to show if you are a good driver or one of the guys with that last 5% in reserve. So for the team it doesnt really matter if its Hulk or Sutil...their results are goign to be dependent on a few dnfs or errors up front to get their result...vs earn it.

Williams...there is nothing in Sutil that Rubens cant offer for 2012. But with Rubens not able to hang around forever and the team needing somebody solid and experienced to side with what is likely to be another bought seat at Williams in 2013...i think Sutil could be a strong chance at Williams as a caretaker lead until/if results return and they need something better or to take a risk on a fast rookie.

TF110 · 22 Dec 2011, 08:55 (Ref:3003057)

F-I isn't going forward, so why say it's Sutil's fault? Hulk won't do any better than DiResta, and DiResta couldn't match Sutil. I hope he goes to a better team that has more potential.

Flavio Galtieri · 22 Dec 2011, 10:05 (Ref:3003083)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

F-I isn't going forward

Errr.....just out of interest, how to you come to that conclusion?

**chunterer** · 22 Dec 2011, 10:13 (Ref:3003087)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

F-I isn't going forward, so why say it's Sutil's fault? Hulk won't do any better than DiResta, and DiResta couldn't match Sutil. I hope he goes to a better team that has more potential.

But Di Resta was more than a match for Sutil, more often than not he beat him. The points placings don't do their performances full justice.

That is partly what led to their decision!

Flavio Galtieri · 22 Dec 2011, 10:30 (Ref:3003101)

I think if you check the stats Sutil and DiResta were pretty much always on different race strategies, due to being either in or on the cusp of the top ten in qualifying and hence trying to gain maximum points for the team.

For some reason DiResta seemed to end up on the slower strategy I believe, but I think his 6th place in qualifying for the BGP really stood out as a great effort and he is clearly a class act.

Sutil is a fine driver in my opinion, I hope he finds a ride for next year and it can't have been easy for him knowing Hulkenburg was in the wings waiting.

TF110 · 24 Dec 2011, 06:16 (Ref:3003801)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Errr.....just out of interest, how to you come to that conclusion?

The teams they havein front of them to beat are Mercedes (who supply their engines), Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull. Which one of those teams are going to move over so F-I can go forward? Not to mention Lotus next year who've signed Kimi, they'll be on a charge. Sauber isn't sitting still and Toro Rosso are clipping at their heels as well. So there's my conclusion.

Sutil drove just as well as DiResta and scored more points than him (which is the main goal). Hulkenburg is going to do so much better?

Watch him be the same pace as Paul, and no better than what they got rid of.

Flavio Galtieri · 24 Dec 2011, 09:38 (Ref:3003848)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

The teams they havein front of them to beat are Mercedes (who supply their engines), Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull. Which one of those teams are going to move over so F-I can go forward? Not to mention Lotus next year who've signed Kimi, they'll be on a charge. Sauber isn't sitting still and Toro Rosso are clipping at their heels as well. So there's my conclusion.

Interestingly you have intimated FI were 5th, whereas on reality they finished 6th, up from 7th last year. I would say 5th. is a reasonable target for the team which would have them moving forward next season.

Of course everything depends on how the new cars shape up, but for a team with somewhat smaller resources than those they often beat I would say they are doing a pretty fair job and have probably irritated Mercedes and Renault on quite a few occasions this year.

And just to keep it on-topic, I think Hulkenburg will do a fine job and the FI drivers look like one of the more exciting partnerships on the grid.

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