A simple question...

[Dino]

Hello,

I don't usually come to this board, but whenever i do, i notice that Michael Schumacher is referred to as TGF.

Could someone kindly tell me what this stands for?

Thank you,
Dino

[R]

That German Fellow.

And come back more often!

[Dino]

Thank you R!

I would post here more often, but being a Schumacher fan, I don't know how welcome I would be. After all, there seems to be a very anti-MS overtone to this BB, but i could be wrong.

Dino

[JeremySmith]

Welcome Dino,

I am also a big fan of Michael Schumacher and Ferrari..I don't care to much for the "TGF" abbreviation, I feel that it shows the man very little respect..But having said that, my learned friends at this BB are among the most knowledgeable on the internet..So please come back and visit with us soon..


WDC 2000= Michael Schumacher
WCC 2000= Ferrari

[Gerard]

Dino, don't be afraid to come back and post more often.
I'm a Michael Schumacher fan also.
We have a rule here that says 'Attack the post, not the poster.'
And almost all of our members follow that rule.
I think you might find this board a very nice place to visit and I for one would be happy if you joined us.
You're very much welcome.

[Dino]

Well thanks for the warm welcome. I think I will check around here more often and throw in some ideas from time to time.

I have been a devout F1 fan since 95, not missing a race, and I am familiar with a lot of the history regarding Formula 1 because I have done a lot of reading on the subject and have also checked out the autocourses and the year in review videos since 1988. I have also seen videos of quite a few Grands Prix from the last ten years or so.

Anyway, thanks again, and I'll be seeing you around.

Dino

[EERO]

Dino, welcome, I second Gerard's comments. Though you will find that I am most assuredly NOT a Schumacher fan, like most non-Schumacher fans here, I acknowledge his obvious skill and dominance in the sport at this time. As I have the pleasure of living with an eight-year old who is a rabid fan of TGF, I have learned to temper my comments. Please feel welcome to participate-though we may disagree here, we can agree to disagree and find plenty of common ground on other subjects. That is what makes this place so great.

[Liz]

TGF is not meant to be a term of disrespect - it is only a shorter way of writing Michael Schumacher (if Ralf wasn't racing too, we wouldn't have to write his entire name every time we wanted to mention him!)

I agree with Bernie - the only time in my life, probably - that TGF is "the best of the drivers post-Senna" which is what you call damning with faint praise.

On the starting grid for the 1979 Long Beach Grand Prix, TGF would have been last if he had qualified at all.

But come back and argue the point if you like - we are friendly folks and pretty well behaved, and we don't bite!

[Bud 1]

I think it is difficult to argue against TGF being one of the very top guys around, his record speaks for itself. As for being disrespectful by calling him TGF I think the guy himself shows little respect for others, think Oz 94, Jerez 97, several run ins with DC, those little swerves of the line, etc.
Personally I think Hakinnen runs him close, and I am a big Montoya fan, but he has the same attitude as Schuey, where he can push people around but hates having it done back to him.
PS I have heard some interesting stories about a certain Italian teams traction control system.

[Nuvolari]

There may be no disrespect intended by TGF, but it's often used in a dismissive, derogatory way.

But . . . my fellow pilotes are even-handed in their japes. You'll find references to Cranky Mika, Boxhead, Button Spice and more.

Welcome to our cozy, sometimes-dysfunctional family!

[Liz]

Unlike some bulletin boards, we don't tend to worship the pilots here - although some of us are kind of fond of the piste upon which they drive as it were ... but it's all in good fun and people generally apologize if they go too far.

And might I inquire if TGF is the best pilot to come along since Nuvolari, why does he have to have a contract that says nobody on his team is allowed to beat him? If he is that good, like, wouldn't that be unnecessary?

Yeah, it's an old argument, but whattheheck.

[Airhead]

Sorry to spoil the vibes but the Schu is flawed (aren't we all) he is excellent at right turns, especially when an opponent is in the way of a championship. This is not something to cellebrate as for a person with such undisputed talent, a lack of using the indicator is not good. This (frailty)is the Schu's achilles heel, roll on 2001.

[Nuvolari]

Let me play inquiring reporter for a moment.

I have seen this reference to Michael's contract language numerous times. How do we know it's fact?

[neutral]

I'm a dedicated Schumi fan, and I admit that he like everyone has his weaknesses. Mika cant drive in the wet, Michael is sometimes too aggressive, Coulthard just cant drive and so on. Nobody is perfect. I would also like to answer the question from Liz. RB for one has had no such clause in his contract. Michael has outperformed him fair and square this season. Eddie on the other hand was a different case, he was with Michael when Ferarri was building up, and yes, any new parts first went to Michael. You have to remember that Ferarri had to fight for every point in those years. They could just not go out and dominate a race like Williams or Mclaren. Therefore it made no sense for one driver to take points off the main contender. By the way, the amount of times Eddie had to pull over for Michael is quite small indeed.

[angst]

You honestly believe that RB has been given a fair crack at the whip alongside TGF? According to Ivan Capelli it is common knowledge that Rubens has been used to try out tyre strategies for the Schu in changing conditions. Mika can drive in the rain, he is just more cautious (perhaps over-cautious) in changing conditions than TGF. Whatever else, you cannot deny that the whole machination of the Ferrari team has revolved utterly around TGF. If the leash is off then I would expect to see a very different year for Rubinho(though I think he is too inconsistent to actually challenge for the title).

[downforce]

True..Barryfellow aint consistent at all.

I can see the anti-schus slowly emerging from their hiding...musta been painful the last 2 weeks...this is the pattern Dino, mid-October "Rubens didnt have the same car", November-December "FIA gave the title to Schuey"..how? I dunno, but watch the pattern...Jan-Feb01 "Hes nobody near the Gilles+Nuvolaris"...March01 "tifosi dont love him"...its the pattern-watch!

And then Melbourne..he'll runaway with it and theyll all go "it was the car".."RB on 3 xtra stops"!!!....lol its fun tho.

The sad thing is there are very few "Schuey-over-the-curbs" watchers..."Schuey-fishtailin"...lovers...when it rains the media does the "Reinmeister" bull****ing...and people tend to overlook the brilliance, instead they jus expect it from him...its fun...lol

oh! and then ofcourse TGF is shorter than MS u see!!!!!

[LYM]

True that Ferrari built the WHOLE team around TGF and he enjoys preferential treatment. But team members like Ross Brawn & Rory Bryne might never have gone to Ferrari if TGF isn't driving for them. And Eddie & Rubens have prove that they are just not as good.

So Ferrari took a gamble and it took them five years to taste success....(sigh*)

I like TGF. Less typoerrors.

[angst]

LYM, I agree that the reason Byrne, Brawn etc. have gone to Ferrari is because of TGF. I wasn't arguing the logic of building the team around him(Lotus did it with Andretti in'78), just saying that to judge Rubens on this season is a little unfair, and to assert that he has had equal status with TGF is untrue.

[Murph]

Hi there Dino

I would also like to welcome you to the 10-10ths forums. Do not be afraid of the inmates! Just remind yourself that we cover the entire gamut here..... from the "haters" on one end ( hate Michael (and yes I also see TGF as derogatory ), or Ferrari, or Ron Dennis, or Frank Williams or DC,or etc.) to those who place their "unblemished hereos" on a pedestal ( Love Michael, or Ayrton, or Mika, or Ron Dennis, or Alain, or Ferrari, or Frank Williams, or Minardi, or... etc.) Then there's the long winded "old farts" who believe that "their era" was the best (that's me).... it won't take ya long to figure out where anyone's coming from in any of the threads on this forum! That way you can take most of our "bleatings" with a very large grain of salt.... Enjoy your stay !

Hi Liz!

So let me get this right..... In 1979 at Long Beach, Michael would have at best qualified at the back of the grid if not at all ?
hmmmm.... let's see..... OK....Niki and Gilles are my heroes and I don't see Michael as their equal (yet)... but there was also Clay, Alan, Mario, Nelson, Lole, Emmo, and Jacques who I would rate Michael over... then there was Pironi, Jabouille, Arnoux, Tambay, Ickx, Mezario, Patrese, and Elio who I would also rate Michael ahead of. And finally there was Dally, Stuck, Vittorio (the Monza Gorilla was a personal favorite of moi), Lammers, Watson, and Hector Rebaque... are ya sure Michael wouldn't have qualified ahead of any of these guys ? Wait a minute... now I understand.... gosh ya got me going there for a second Liz... of course Michael would have qualified at the back of the grid if at all at Long Beach in '79.... he would have been all of age 9!!!!

Bud 1
Gosh.... don't know what interesting stories you have heard regarding Ferrari and traction control during the 2000 season. Seeing that 2 of the major characteristics of TC are lightning starts and handling as if on rails in all type of corners especially over curbing..... it would seem to me that if Ferrari has TC they sure as hell made a mess of it !! There was one team that did have to modify its differential because of the FIA's concern about it's legality (ie... the possibility that it permitted traction control). I have no clue about anything dealing with the technical side so I have no idea if that team used TC.... but that team DID modify it's differential after Spa...... which was the last race that team won this season going into Sepang.

take care all,

Murph

[Nuvolari]

IMHO:

Could Rubinho have outdriven Michael this year? No.

Could he have performed better? Perhaps.

There is a hierarchy in all teams, is there not? I think when pushing for a WDC and a Constructor's title, it stands to reason that the focus will be on one driver over another. That may be the unenviable fate of a Number Two, but it is the reality of racing.

That Schumi should have received the lion's share of the attention is understandable. He, clearly, was the best shot the scuderia had to achieve a goal it's sought for twenty long years.

And it paid off, didn't it?

[angst]

What!!! Another Brambilla fan. I was devastated that he was nowhere near the same driver when he came back with the Alfa.
Dino, very remiss of me (I confused you with Dino IV) welcome to the forum. I too fall into the long winded 'old farts' category.

[Dino]

Thanks for all the responses guys,

While I am sometimes in awe of MS, and I have been a dedicated fan, I don't think I fall into the category of the fan of the "unblemished hero", as Murph so eloquently put it. I know he is human, I know he makes mistakes, I know that he has done questionable things in the past. But I think that many of the real great drivers have had questionable moves in the past, namely Senna and Prost. It is sometimes an indication of the true desire to win. Michael is, in many ways, in the Senna mold of needing to win so badly that doing something questionable might cross his mind.
I am also not a "hater", although I'm not particularly fond of DC or Ron Dennis. I think that DC has been guilty of many "questionable moves" himself, and in the cases where they occured with Michael, he was quick to try and use MS's reputation to make himself look completely innocent. But in general, I find it saddening when posters on these bulletin boards put so much effort into discrediting or flaming a particular driver. I feel it it much better to be pro-something than to be an anti.

Cheers
Dino

[TimD]

Dino, it's good to have you around!

I couldn't have put it better myself. As I keep saying long and loud, I don't lampoon the drivers because every one of them is miles better than I ever will be.

And although I have on this forum been accused of Schumacher-idolatry, the best I can offer is that he's darned good and the best of the current crop.

But then I'm a dyed-in-the-wool old fart, and putting Tazio Nuvolari and Rudolf Caracciola on pedestals is my stock in trade.


As for Michael Schumacher (you won't catch me using those three little letters either) qualifying at the back of the Long Beach grid? Not a chance. That would be a space reserved for John Watson, who would then proceed to scythe his way through the pack for a glorious win from the back, as was his speciality. And on a street circuit too.

So there!

[Neil C]

Angst, there is a small (about 4) group of us who fondly remember Brambilla as the most over/underrated, fun to watch, comic relief, what-is-he-going-to-do-next, underdog to grace an F1 grid. Welcome to that most exclusive group.

[Murph]

Hey Angst

send me your e-mail addy and I will send ya a pic I took of Vittorio on the s/f line at Watkins Glen in 1975 in his "customized" March 751. That will be your membership card to our "exclusive" club!

murph