Middle age men and... sharing a car with a teenage daughter

[ensign14]

Fabia RS? Honda Civic?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Fabia RS? Honda Civic?

Are you serious?

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by dtype38

As for a DS3, I would happily buy, just need to amputate 25 years first!

Don't worry, the car will take the years off for you!

(Speaking as a 69-year-old DS3 driver)

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Are you serious?

Why not? Second hand they might be bargainaceous.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Why not? Second hand they might be bargainaceous.

Why not, insurance for a start.

[ensign14]

As a second driver?

[Tim Falce]

It makes no difference, she's seventeen.

[dtype38]

Ok, so it looks like we're building up a bit of a consensus around what I'd call the 'larger mainstream superminis'. Fiesta, Clio, Corsa, (DS3 perhaps or something similar size from the land of the rising sun). The latter I'm not a big fan of myself, but only from a styling point of view.

Age of car wise I'm thinking maybe 2-4 years old would be a good compromise between reliability and getting past the worst of the depreciation. I'll probably go for a car from a dealer so I've got come-back on problems. Insurance wise I'd like her to build her own NDC so I'll see what schemes are about for new drivers. Thanks for the pointer on companies to try Tim.

Still like advice on a couple of things though. First is petrol vs diesel. I've not driven a small manual diesel car in quite a while, but last time I did it was a bit of a pain to drive. The power was all in a tight rev band so it had to be in just the right gear all the time - not so easy for a beginner. Are modern small diesels more flexible, or should I go with my instinct and pick petrol?

Next is 'drivability'. My wife wanted a car in this range about 16-18 years ago so we went round all the main dealers and tried the Metro, Corsa, Clio, AX, Fiesta and Micra. I was very surprised at how different they all were to drive. The Micra was a doddle, easy controls, responsive, direct. The Corsa and Metro were horrible, no feel, sluggish etc. In the end we got the Clio as the best all round and were very happy with it. Anyone got any observations on the newish versions of the shortlist above?

Thanks for the help folks

[bella]

the diesel thing: if anything it's probably better practice for the new driver to be in a diesel so she doesn't get lazy with being in the wrong gear all the time! but if it's not going to be doing too many miles i would question the wisdom of going for a diesel at all.

fuel prices are significantly higher, which cancels out the gain in mpg and to be honest the smaller petrol cars, if you pick carefully, are very fuel efficient anyway. it's really not worth it unless you're both going to be doing considerable mileage both inside and outside the uk.

also, the second hand costs for a diesel are pretty high compared to a petrol. your money will get you more car with more comfort and better toys on a petrol model than a diesel, though selling it on might take a little longer.

[BertMk2]

Insurance on a diesel tends to be lower though (although not if it's a Fabia Vrs ). My driving instructor had diesels - low down power and torque make them harder to stall and they put up with **** driving better

Oh - I'm also amazed that you had a Clio and were happy with it. My wife had a Clio (which she had before we were together I hasten to add) and it was a hateful piece of kit. Shoddy build quality, god awful handling and an impressive array of intermittent electrical issues. I often wondered how they managed to connect the steering wheel to the front wheels - clearly whatever they'd used was made from some sort of jelly substance that meant what you did with the steering wheel had very little impact on what the front wheels did, it was like driving on ice the whole time. Also how was it possible to fit a seat into a car in such a way that it wouldn't move back far enough to give you enough leg room to use the pedals comfortably yet at the same time keep you so far away from the gearstick that you had to lean forward every time you wanted it (about every 10 seconds thanks to the gutless engine) and my head touched the roof lining so every time it went over a bump my head would crack against the edge of the sunroof. I still hate that car now and we haven't had it for years, it didn't have a single redeeming feature. I seem to have wandered somewhat off topic here.....

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bella

fuel prices are significantly higher, which cancels out the gain in mpg and to be honest the smaller petrol cars, if you pick carefully, are very fuel efficient anyway. it's really not worth it unless you're both going to be doing considerable mileage both inside and outside the uk.

According to Petrolprices.com the current price for diesel is 4% higher than unleaded. I'd hazard a guess that diesel engines of similar power in similar size cars are more than 4% more ecomomical . . . "official" figures, unrealistic as they are, indicate something in the region of 50%!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

According to Petrolprices.com the current price for diesel is 4% higher than unleaded. I'd hazard a guess that diesel engines of similar power in similar size cars are more than 4% more ecomomical . . . "official" figures, unrealistic as they are, indicate something in the region of 50%!

I'm only going off the facts I know but figures for the Clio4 diesels are something like 80mpg, my wife's older Clio2 diesel does 65mpg, my daughter's Clio3 1.2 petrol does 41mpg.

Ken, if you go for a Clio petrol don't get a 1.2 unless it is the turbo version. The diesels are very rapid indeed and cheap to tax as well, £0-£30

[GORDON STREETER]

I've got a fair number of Blue Motion diesel Polo's and Golf's on my books and find them very good on fuel/performance/road tax, if you take notice of DPF cleaning (a thrash up the road) every now and then they are brilliant !

[Pete Howarth]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Are they still making them out of Renault 12 parts ?

Made in India in the same factory as the Nissan Micra.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

According to Petrolprices.com the current price for diesel is 4% higher than unleaded. I'd hazard a guess that diesel engines of similar power in similar size cars are more than 4% more ecomomical . . . "official" figures, unrealistic as they are, indicate something in the region of 50%!

theoretical maths is pretty academic (pun not intended) tbh, it's the real life costs that are important. the "50mpg" diesel 3 series that Will Not Die is 300 miles for £40 at current prices, my s3 petrol based hooligan averaging around 25-27mpg is 200 miles for £40. and a silly grin.

i actually find the hooligan cheaper to run than the 3 series. mostly because i perceive it to be so much more expensive to run because of the mpg, and thus drive it a lot less. my mileage is down to 15,000 from an average of 35,000. at 35,000 a year, the lunatic would be robbing me blind. at 15,000 a year, it's worth having the petrol for the uber-spec toys and 100% more fun that i got for boring base model second hand diesel money.

also: beware the leaden-footed driver in a diesel. my brother's a4 diesel does 30mpg because he uses the accelerator as a pogo stick in the manner of a taxi driver.

/personal experience

[Salamus]

VW Jetta or Golf? My friend owns a Jetta and both her father and her drive it.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bella

fuel prices are significantly higher, which cancels out the gain in mpg

the "50mpg" diesel 3 series that Will Not Die is 300 miles for £40 at current prices, my s3 petrol based hooligan averaging around 25-27mpg is 200 miles for £40. and a silly grin.

No comment.

[bella]

what? it does. and as the difference increases in this country over the next few years, it'll continue to get closer.

all i'm saying is think twice about a diesel. the mpg figures aren't the only indicator of how much it's going to cost you. especially in this country without the diesel subsidies.

[dtype38]

Looking like a pretty even split on the Diesel/Petrol front. I guess that means 'personal preference' and 'driving style' are the main deciders. I'll probably test drive both before deciding. Interesting about diesel filter cleaning Gordon. I had wondered about that, but if a regular thrash is all that's needed then it's no real issue.

Main use for the car for the first year will be a morning school run of 5 miles for my daughter, and as a shopping trolley for me. At the moment my wife gives her a lift to school in the mornings and she gets the train home. My aim is for her to drive me to the school in the mornings then for me to drive it back home (she'll get the train home as usual). That way there's no parking issues, she gets to have daily practice in traffic, and I get to use it during the day. Thoughts?

[Peat]

Sharing a car with a teenager? Strike the fear of god into yourself with this wonderful waste of licence fee: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rs1tz/episodes/guide

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Salamus

VW Jetta or Golf? My friend owns a Jetta and both her father and her drive it.

As long as it doesnt have a DSG either one should be apples

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Peat

Sharing a car with a teenager? Strike the fear of god into yourself with this wonderful waste of licence fee: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rs1tz/episodes/guide

I think I'll keep well clear of such things.... or I might not let her drive at all!

[JHamilton]

I suggest a Corvette Z06. It's small, by American standards anyway, and fun to drive. She won't drive it too much as it is scary, the clutch is heavy, and it is difficult to change gear. Sorted.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I suggest a Corvette Z06. It's small, by American standards anyway, and fun to drive. She won't drive it too much as it is scary, the clutch is heavy, and it is difficult to change gear. Sorted.

Good plan
And heavy on the motion lotion, as a discouragement to drive

[dtype38]

LOL

If money, size, fuel consumption, drivability (and insurance) weren't a problem then I'm sure there are lots and lots of desirable cars.... but I'm afraid that will have to wait until the kids leave home!