Entry Levels at Historic Race Meetings

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by delta

The Delta /Dr Bob race program is not finished yet John. There are lots of track I need to take him to. I had better take him to Croix.

Thanks, Iain. I have sent you an email on the subject.

Have a good weekend.

[Alan Morgan]

Or, maybe a drive in a Delta FF2000?

[L-G Sjöberg]

Originally Posted by delta

Baltic tour in 2023 and then I am leaving the 22 with you lars. If thats OK.

Be my guest!

[delta]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Or, maybe a drive in a Delta FF2000?

Mrs Dr Bob will not let hem drive single seaters.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Or, maybe a drive in a Delta FF2000?

Originally Posted by delta

Mrs Dr Bob will not let hem drive single seaters.

Hehehehe I was going to say good luck with that one, dont hold your breath!

[Gerard C]

May be its better for people of an age to stick to the cars/technology they used in period, like carbs, simple ignition with trigger, mechanical injection like Lucas and or Bosch Kügelfisher. Well, we have to cope with drums too…

As to entry fees and race duration we do nothing here, many side expenses have been increasing a lot, FP's for instance.

[midgetman]

On a peripheral point....I see the MGCC/TSSC/TRR have had to cancel their upcoming big joint weekend.

It was an award winning event last year, but for 2022 ticket sales are so low they've pulled the event rather than make losses.

It appears it's not just drivers that are feeling the pinch, spectators and enthusiasts aren't taking part either.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Heightswitch]

Another Impoverished Self taught, Self Preparing 51 year old with one of those unobtainable 60's cars here
Firstly.. Not sure who is responsible but in my mind after having elevated myself to a lofty status and competed in my first Gold Cup in 2021.... They have ruined it ! The gold cup was always a great bank holiday weekend.. and as such Mr P i reckon will find out just how much he has shot himself in the foot! The cost of racing since I started has always seemed to be of the order of 1 Motorsport unit of Currency for each race.. As such for me that means seeing how we are doing within the household before spending some money on fun stuff. This year has been difficult for a lot of folks and as such it is looking like my 1 race of the season will be the Croft Nostalgia event where us Northern monkeys are generally welcomed to get the numbers up. I started racing properly in 2015 and I started building my own car out of pure love in 2003. I endured many reg changes during that time which scuppered the car ever being completed as an Fia Car and at that point I thought Bo@@@x.. I know my place and I will just race in club racing in a championship where my car will be appreciated for what it is in the spirit of the relevant championship! I have raced in the CSCC Swinging 60's and to be honest after a Donnington meeting where the race was curtailed I felt that I wasn't getting good value because in my opinion the race programme was so tight that any stopages resulted in race shortening.. I then happily found the HSCC and I find even in invitation class that the regs are stable and the cars are even and generally all in the spirit of the period.. In racing their are always people who can afford the better engines etc .. but similarly there is always someone at your level somewhere on the grid to race.. But its getting harder to afford it.. This year I have just bought a new extinguisher which is exactly the same as the old bottle but now it is on a list 16a and has to be serviced back at base rather than with my local fire extinguisher service agent.. Entry fees are rising .. At 51 i am often one of the younger ones at the meeting and the kids can no longer afford to even think about racing or they don't want to ?? Not sure what the answer is but I think the clubs and circuit owners need to try and stop competing with each other since the dilution in championships is getting worse and the drivers fewer. Lets see how croft goes.. I would dearly love to get a proffessional car engine set up and rolling road time ahead of the meeting but as things stand I am going to stick a couple of richer jets in the holley and see if the plugs are a little darker after qually !!!! This is the life of a club racer!! Somewhere a bit further back but always looking ahead with plenty to chase !! Neil.

[morninggents]

Well said, Neil. I agree with all you said.
Not sure if I will make it to Croft this year but if I do I will come and say hello.

[Mike Harte]

Neil, who is the Mr P you refer to as shooting himself in the foot, and why do you think that he has?

Otherwise, I generally agree with you.

[Peter Mallett]

It's Dr. Jonathan Palmer.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It's Dr. Jonathan Palmer.

I did assume that, but wanted to be sure who Neil meant. I wonder, though, about whether Palmer is actually responsible for any part of the organisation of the Gold Cup. Yes, MSV owns Oulton and hires it out to race promoters and in the case of The Cup meeting at least HSCC and Jaguar Drivers have races.

However, it must been borne in mind that the Gold Cup meeting was moved from it's traditional August Bank Holiday date because Silverstone decided to change it's usual date for the Classic to that weekend and it would have severely damaged grids for possibly both meetings if they were held simultaneously.

[Derwent]

A month or so ago the members of the various MSUK committees met at Oulton Park at the BTCC meeting. I am on the HC&S committee. Dr JP came along and spend time with each table asking about their discipline and how they could use his venues. I think we were all impressed by him and his suggestions. I am sure he took our views away as well as he left to measure the height of his grass.

Circuits exist to make money and sadly the racing side is not the big earner, other than BTCC or BGT. Track days, drifting etc are more cost effective. OP seems to have three track days a week for most of the year plus exclusive testing.
Clubs have to use every minute of the time allocated and thus squeeze in as many races as possible with the inevitable change of the last race being curtailed if there is a hold up.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Derwent

A month or so ago the members of the various MSUK committees met at Oulton Park at the BTCC meeting. I am on the HC&S committee. Dr JP came along and spend time with each table asking about their discipline and how they could use his venues. I think we were all impressed by him and his suggestions. I am sure he took our views away as well as he left to measure the height of his grass.

Circuits exist to make money and sadly the racing side is not the big earner, other than BTCC or BGT. Track days, drifting etc are more cost effective. OP seems to have three track days a week for most of the year plus exclusive testing.
Clubs have to use every minute of the time allocated and thus squeeze in as many races as possible with the inevitable change of the last race being curtailed if there is a hold up.

HC&S?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by andy97

HC&S?

Hillclimb and Sprint Committee

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Hillclimb and Sprint Committee

Thanks

[GCCheddaris]

After the Lord Mayor's Show of the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting with mostly large grids, last week's lower key HSCC meeting at Oulton saw some distinctly below par grids. Just two Classic Formula Three cars were combined with ten Classic Clubmans, six Historic Modsports/Saloons joined in the first race of a five car Historic Saloon car grid and the four surviving Historic Saloons competed on their own later on. Only the two Roadsports series and the Historic Formula Fords reached double figures and none of them reached twenty entries.

[Peter Mallett]

Too many events, too close together. I think Peter Baker.made the point that perhaps the top events such as the Gold Cup and Silverstone Classic should be left to the professional teams since the cars are mostly driven by professional or semi professional drivers. Then Club meets such as HSCC, MGCC should limit their entries to amateur drivers, i.e those who never made or don't meet Int A standards. Possibly complete ******** but a reasonable point?

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

After the Lord Mayor's Show of the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting with mostly large grids, last week's lower key HSCC meeting at Oulton saw some distinctly below par grids. Just two Classic Formula Three cars were combined with ten Classic Clubmans, six Historic Modsports/Saloons joined in the first race of a five car Historic Saloon car grid and the four surviving Historic Saloons competed on their own later on. Only the two Roadsports series and the Historic Formula Fords reached double figures and none of them reached twenty entries.

Knowing that the Modsports/Saloons were only competing in the first combined race and that 4 or 5 touring cars was not mush of a spectacle the Historic Touring Car drivers approached the C of C to make race 2 a handicap affair in which thay agreed the handicap system amongst themselves. I wasn't there but am informed by someone who was that the crowd were pleased with the resulting race and at least had the spectacle of watching cars come through the (thin) field and supply some excitement. I think the drivers should be commended for this initiative to provide some excitement.

[Mike Crow]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Too many events, too close together. I think Peter Baker.made the point that perhaps the top events such as the Gold Cup and Silverstone Classic should be left to the professional teams since the cars are mostly driven by professional or semi professional drivers. Then Club meets such as HSCC, MGCC should limit their entries to amateur drivers, i.e those who never made or don't meet Int A standards. Possibly complete ******** but a reasonable point?

Point well made. Monster grids at CTCRC Brands today and I guess not a professional driver anywhere

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Mike Crow

Point well made. Monster grids at CTCRC Brands today and I guess not a professional driver anywhere

Yep, given the economic climate the CTRC meeting was very well subscribed, it's a great shame that MSV didn't give them a fair crack of the whip after the various delays. In my view they should have shortened their own 2 x 45min races, at the end of the day MSVR get to race for free with the circuit cost being covered by the CTRC. Spent the whole day in the shade of the trees at Druids, some frenetic action from the big saloons but all good clean fun.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by justracing

Yep, given the economic climate the CTRC meeting was very well subscribed, it's a great shame that MSV didn't give them a fair crack of the whip after the various delays. In my view they should have shortened their own 2 x 45min races, at the end of the day MSVR get to race for free with the circuit cost being covered by the CTRC. Spent the whole day in the shade of the trees at Druids, some frenetic action from the big saloons but all good clean fun.

It’s not true that MSVR get to race for free - they are club that is owned by MSV as a separate business unit but they still have to pay for their track time the same as any other club.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by andy97

It’s not true that MSVR get to race for free - they are club that is owned by MSV as a separate business unit but they still have to pay for their track time the same as any other club.

I stand corrected, what I do know is that the schedule appeared somewhat unbalanced particularly for some of the classic competitors. I know race stoppages are inevitable at times but if I had paid out a pretty hefty entry fee as a CTRC entrant I would be a little miffed with one race curtailed after 3 laps and a second shortened because of time constraints.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by justracing

I stand corrected, what I do know is that the schedule appeared somewhat unbalanced particularly for some of the classic competitors. I know race stoppages are inevitable at times but if I had paid out a pretty hefty entry fee as a CTRC entrant I would be a little miffed with one race curtailed after 3 laps and a second shortened because of time constraints.

To be fair it was an MSVR meeting so you would expect them to favour their own series over “guests”.
I thought CTCRC normally raced with BARC?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by justracing

I stand corrected, what I do know is that the schedule appeared somewhat unbalanced particularly for some of the classic competitors. I know race stoppages are inevitable at times but if I had paid out a pretty hefty entry fee as a CTRC entrant I would be a little miffed with one race curtailed after 3 laps and a second shortened because of time constraints.

Yes it was a bit unfair, however I was in a 1hr race at Spa laying 6th overall in a 70 car grid when the safety car was bought out, unfortunately the safety car came out in front of the car in front of me that happened to be the slowest car in the race that I was just going to overtake and lap but he couldn't even keep up with the safety car that disappeared into the distance !
This went on for ages and as I couldn't overtake the "driver" in front (under the rules as well as yellow flags) I lost almost a complete lap to the 5th placed driver that I was never going to catch and have a good race. OK I did get the 6th place but I spent the whole time driving on my own for the remaining race. I know that they are supposed to let cars overtake to catch up with the pack but it rarely happens in reality at a lot of meetings because of time constraints.
The same thing happened on the race mentioned above with several cars miles behind as it was on the GP circuit.