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Old 9 May 2021, 09:31 (Ref:4050459)   #201
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Is this what you are looking for?
All of those are dated from the past year. I think Mixer was saying the prospect of a Corolla TCR car has been talked about for 3 years.
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Old 9 May 2021, 09:34 (Ref:4050460)   #202
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All of those are dated from the past year. I think Mixer was saying the prospect of a Corolla TCR car has been talked about for 3 years.
I said it, and then I provided you objective proof that it has been talked about for 4 years and so far has missed 3 deadlines, and is actually no closer to release now than it was 4 years ago.

And if Lotti's talk about Mazda is more than hot air I will eat my hat.

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Old 9 May 2021, 11:02 (Ref:4050486)   #203
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Mr Braid's latest exchange with Auto Fiction claims that the Mazda is back on the cards, and that the Toyota is a sure thing.

Hopefully the Mazda reemerges with aazda engine, and not the VAG-sourced 'common' engine.
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Old 9 May 2021, 11:06 (Ref:4050489)   #204
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Mr Braid's latest exchange with Auto Fiction claims that the Mazda is back on the cards, and that the Toyota is a sure thing.

Hopefully the Mazda reemerges with aazda engine, and not the VAG-sourced 'common' engine.
He is regurgitation Lotti's claims, until someone shows me a car I remain skeptical.

Truth is the funds exist to make both of these real out of North And South America but both have had false starts and right now you only have Lotti's flimsy words on it. Nothing to say either car exists and that it is going to be here Real Soon (TM).

Both are what the category needs, along with the Focus. But I just think each of these has interests elsewhere and there is no global will in those manufacturers. Keep in mind Toyota has multiple serious motorsport facilities that could build a competitive Corolla but they ain't in Argentina.

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Old 9 May 2021, 11:51 (Ref:4050502)   #205
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I won't lose sleep if neither eventuates.

Still plenty of quality TCR to enjoy.
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Old 9 May 2021, 12:50 (Ref:4050518)   #206
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Toyota Gazoo Racing Agrentina seems comparable to Toyota Gazoo Racing Australia of Neal Bates. I.e., a small shed, a manufacturer operation in name but more akin to a privateer.

I'm quite surprised that Toyota Gazoo Racing Europe GmbH
(i.e., a big shed, an ex-F1 team with all the kit -- wind tunnels, multiple four-post rigs et al. ) aren't building the Corolla TCR cars, they built the Toyota 86 R3 customer rally cars after all IIRC, so the customer racing world is not foreign to them. Of course they could also be built by the Toyota Gazoo Racing skunkworks in Japan if Toyoda-san was keen on the class too.

Perhaps they see it as a saturated market, being (as it is) already dominated by Audi Sport Customer Racing, Honda's JAS Motorsport and Hyundai Customer Racing?
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Old 9 May 2021, 14:58 (Ref:4050604)   #207
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Keep in mind Toyota has multiple serious motorsport facilities that could build a competitive Corolla but they ain't in Argentina.
I get the impression you don't know much about Argentinian motorsport. The motorsport scene is much bigger than in your own country.

Toyota Argentina itself is involved in multiple series like STC2000, TC2000, Turismo Nacional, TC Trucks, Top Race.

So don't underestimate them.

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Old 9 May 2021, 15:07 (Ref:4050610)   #208
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I get the impression you don't know much about Argentinian motorsport. The motorsport scene is much bigger than in your own country.

Toyota Argentina itself is involved in multiple series like STC2000, TC2000, Turismo Nacinal, TC Trucks, Top Race.

So don't underestimated them.
Nice!

It should be a great bit of kit.

https://media.speedcafe.com/wp-conte...a-1200x801.jpg
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Old 11 May 2021, 13:35 (Ref:4051062)   #209
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I get the impression you don't know much about Argentinian motorsport. The motorsport scene is much bigger than in your own country.
I didn't say for a minute that anybody here could do it either. I'm saying Toyota has factory teams with experience and it has chosen not to fund them to do this.

So this Argentinian effort is ALLOWED by Toyota but not FUNDED by Toyota. And it is so far 4 years late, vaporware.

also: http://https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/11/road-car-panels-for-cameron-peugeot-tcr-rebuild/

With Aaron Cameron's Pug in the fab shop for a solid week after it's recent crash (and the second such for GRM), do we still keep up the charade of "cheapness" compared to a bespoke race car?

I guess the team has guys on staff but 3 weeks of labour is not cheap.
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Old 11 May 2021, 22:27 (Ref:4051157)   #210
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Still cheaper than scrapping it and ordering another car.

Then there's obviously the time delay with shipping.
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Old 12 May 2021, 11:34 (Ref:4051237)   #211
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do we still keep up the charade of "cheapness" compared to a bespoke race car?
.
Did anyone ever claim it to be cheaper than a bespoke race car?
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Old 12 May 2021, 11:47 (Ref:4051242)   #212
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Did anyone ever claim it to be cheaper than a bespoke race car?
Yes, because entry price and running costs are fairly low. But crash damage will always be more labour intensive and expensive to fix than a bespoke racing chassis, which is the point of said.

I suspect some this year have found the running costs are higher than they suspected with engines and brakes proving to be needing more maintenance than estimated.

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Old 14 May 2021, 12:57 (Ref:4051651)   #213
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Yes, because entry price and running costs are fairly low. But crash damage will always be more labour intensive and expensive to fix than a bespoke racing chassis, which is the point of said.
But it's touring car racing. They are supposed to be based on road cars. That's the whole point.

Otherwise you'd race Formula Ford / Formula Three / Formula Two / Formula One -- proper racing cars with the driver sitting on the floor, the engine in the right place (the middle) etc. Unfortunately many of these are spec series now, where you aren't allowed to build your own car anymore. Regardless Spectrum or anyone else can design a proper Formula Ford racing car however they want, without the compromises of a road car like needing to fit five people and their luggage!

This is Jack Brabham's Torana. It's a souped-up Torana road car full of compromises, it's not a proper racing car built from scratch to be a racing car with the engine and driver sitting as low as possible like his Brabham Formula One cars... Being a souped-up road car is the whole point of touring car racing!


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Old 29 May 2021, 20:39 (Ref:4053776)   #214
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do we still keep up the charade of "cheapness" compared to a bespoke race car?
Here are some nice JAS Motorsport pics of the Civic. Notice, how it's an actual touring car made out of a real Civic! Plus the choice of cost-effective components like the Tilton pedal system.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/fea...rts-italy-tour
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 14:24 (Ref:4076116)   #215
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Germans going their own way on cost-effective touring car formula with new DTC:

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2021...rrection-2022/

Would seem potentially like a 1.6L TCR-like car, maybe if you could build them for half TCR price it could have real legs, but TCR is already having fragmentation from e-TCR, so I am not sure this is really a good thing.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 17:05 (Ref:4076149)   #216
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Germans going their own way on cost-effective touring car formula with new DTC:

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2021...rrection-2022/

Would seem potentially like a 1.6L TCR-like car, maybe if you could build them for half TCR price it could have real legs, but TCR is already having fragmentation from e-TCR, so I am not sure this is really a good thing.
This is a junior class like Renault Clio Cup in de past, not a replacemen for TCR.
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Old 29 Sep 2021, 07:18 (Ref:4076227)   #217
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Ah well, the sky is falling.

Personally, I would use it as an opportunity. A 2 litre ATCC, where you need a TCR, or maybe a BTCC car, if you want to win. But if you want to compete at a reduced cost or break yourself in at a national level, you can get an appropriate car from another class as we see in DTC.
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Old 29 Sep 2021, 08:30 (Ref:4076238)   #218
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Germans going their own way on cost-effective touring car formula with new DTC:

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2021...rrection-2022/

Would seem potentially like a 1.6L TCR-like car, maybe if you could build them for half TCR price it could have real legs, but TCR is already having fragmentation from e-TCR, so I am not sure this is really a good thing.
Slots in under TCR Germany.

They're building their own succession plan. DTC > TCR > GT4 > GT Masters.
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Old 29 Sep 2021, 09:08 (Ref:4076247)   #219
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Nowhere did I say they were trying to replace TCR. But it will take cars away from TCR.

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Old 29 Sep 2021, 09:18 (Ref:4076250)   #220
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But it will take cars away from TCR.
Not sure about that.
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Old 29 Sep 2021, 12:13 (Ref:4076272)   #221
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TCR Teams will enter DTC just as they do with GT4 and GT Masters and German Formula 4.

Will make sense for TCR teams like Engstler and Fugel, who have manufacturer tie-ups.
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Old 24 Nov 2021, 22:42 (Ref:4085360)   #222
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https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/25...Ex7D1_um_tpsxw

Kind of a worry that TCR's biggest news is that Chaz might run a race just to sew up the title.

That Audi thought should be fast up there.
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Old 24 Nov 2021, 23:11 (Ref:4085364)   #223
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What does TCR and particularly Supercheap Auto get out of races on Wednesday and Friday and being finished by Saturday arvo?

It’s a massive waste of sponsors money for a few of these categories going up there.
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Old 25 Nov 2021, 00:23 (Ref:4085368)   #224
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Well they get some racing which they wouldn't otherwise have.

They haven't managed to overcome COVID difficulties on their own, but they can have a race with Supercars event team having done the leg work

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Old 25 Nov 2021, 03:44 (Ref:4085380)   #225
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better than not at all ....

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What does TCR and particularly Supercheap Auto get out of races on Wednesday and Friday and being finished by Saturday arvo?

It’s a massive waste of sponsors money for a few of these categories going up there.
A chance to give the multitude of classes track time, TV coverage ... of course its compromised but there is not an alternative.

Sunday is 'the big race' with the Toyotas & Porsches having a start & the S5000s providing the supports.

TCM are finished Friday morning .... better than not at all.
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