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30 Mar 2018, 02:39 (Ref:3811841) | #51 | |
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And isn't that the whole point of a touring car as opposed to a sports sedan?
Where the latter, just like a Supercar, resembles the original car in external shape only and nothing else. Much better to have an actual Ford Falcon made into a racing car. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 30 Mar 2018 at 02:45. |
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30 Mar 2018, 03:59 (Ref:3811847) | #52 | |||
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a) Makes the sport MUCH less safe - witness deaths, broken bones and serious burns because of limitations in safety with road car shells b) Makes the sport more expensive because the shells are more difficult to repair than bespoke modular chassis, which defrays the more expensive up-front cost c) Makes NO difference to the racing because the Supercars so a VERY good job of looking like the road vehicles, unlike NASCAR or the Brazilian cars. |
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30 Mar 2018, 04:25 (Ref:3811848) | #53 | ||
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Not to mention Improved Production which probably has a race somewhere in Australia every weekend, no complaints from safety from those competitors? Just because it looks a little like a road going car, doesn't mean it should be called a touring car |
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30 Mar 2018, 07:25 (Ref:3811858) | #54 | |
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Although aiming to be cheaper, didn't costs go up with COTF?
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30 Mar 2018, 08:29 (Ref:3811862) | #55 | |
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Initially, the costs were high.
Chassis jigs needed to be bought, or changed. There was the costs associated in moving over to the transaxle as well. |
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30 Mar 2018, 10:50 (Ref:3811900) | #56 | |||
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A: Any roadgoing vehicle can be made just as safe as a purpose built racecar - you merely need to properly reinforce the driver's compartment(IE, rollcage) and, depending on the speed and the base car, add some extra energy-absorbing component in certain areas. B: A roadcar to racecar conversion for a series like Supercars would NOT be using the same body panels as the road car - just ones that look the same and connect to the same spots. They would be lighter than the roadgoing counterparts due to a desire to keep weight down, and if exotic materials are banned this would actually make the panels CHEAPER than the roadgoing versions. The main chassis would be no more difficult to repair than a tube-frame unit. The safety conversions would be more likely to cause a cost problem, but even then for something like Supercars I doubt you'd see much of a difference. C is just an opinion which I have no comment on. |
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30 Mar 2018, 11:45 (Ref:3811908) | #57 | |||
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You cannot make a roadcar to the same strength & safety as a bespoke car. |
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30 Mar 2018, 18:10 (Ref:3811983) | #58 | |||
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Is it EASY to do it? NO - anyone who claims it to be an easy thing to do is an idiot. But that does not mean it is impossible, or more expensive. It all depends on what you're asking of the car. If we wanted DTM speeds, for example, that'd be another case entirely. But we aren't, we're talking Supercars, which run speeds on par with what it's already been proven road-based cars can safely do. |
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31 Mar 2018, 14:09 (Ref:3812124) | #59 | |||
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31 Mar 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3812162) | #60 | |||
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Contrary to popular belief, the driver of a Ferrari road car isn't any more likely to survive a 100+ MPH crash than the driver of any other "normal" road car at such a speed. |
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31 Mar 2018, 22:17 (Ref:3812178) | #61 | ||
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You are brainwashed by SC propaganda. |
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31 Mar 2018, 22:25 (Ref:3812180) | #62 | |
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1 Apr 2018, 01:11 (Ref:3812190) | #63 | |||
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Gen 3 Rules Are Coming...
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I gotta agree too There have more then a few big crashes involving GT cars in recent years and many drivers have walked away from crashes they wouldn’t have a decade or so ago given the increasing speeds of GT cars year by year. |
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
1 Apr 2018, 01:45 (Ref:3812194) | #64 | |
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1 Apr 2018, 05:19 (Ref:3812196) | #65 | |||
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It's hard to compare the performance of DTM & Supercars as I don't think they've ever run on the same track. DTM cars have less power but are lighter and have a lot more aero. I suspect that there wouldn't be a great deal of difference, depending on the track they are both running at. I've seen an article showing a lap time 1.5 seconds quicker than a GT3 in a DTM car (both BMWs). In reality, there's probably not a huge range of lap time difference between a GT3, DTM car and Supercar, with much of the variable in time difference being down to the nature of the track at which testing is taking place. |
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1 Apr 2018, 10:51 (Ref:3812256) | #66 | |||
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GT3 is very expensive in part because the body panels are made of carbon fiber - not something that enters into the equation for a roadcar-derived Supercars concept. DTM cars are so insanely quick that to make them actually be production-based while meeting both speed and safety needs would actually make them MORE expensive than the purpose-built carbon tub design they use. The closest we've ever come to DTM level performance from a production chassis car was pre-2012 GT500, and even then they only required use of the original unibody - and not even the ENTIRE unibody, just the portion that encompassed the driver's compartment. Everything else was completely custom. Still a very different beast from what we're talking here. |
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1 Apr 2018, 11:03 (Ref:3812261) | #67 | ||
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Production cars are road cars |
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1 Apr 2018, 11:15 (Ref:3812263) | #68 | ||
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None in a supercar for over 10 In australia last year there were multiple Gt3 incidents that caused people to miss significant periods of time with injuries. In supercars there were none. |
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1 Apr 2018, 11:52 (Ref:3812270) | #69 | |
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The impression I get and possibly one explanation for that is that GT3 cars seem to be more rigidly constructed and allow for less energy absorption by the car vs the construction of a Supercar, with the result being that although the safety cells of a GT car are very good and the risk of penetration very small, there's often more impact forces on the driver in an accident than a supercar. That's where circuit safety plays a big role and most European circuits seems to have more runoff and gravel traps than in a lot of circuits they visit in Aus which may contribute to injury.
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1 Apr 2018, 12:13 (Ref:3812275) | #70 | |
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There is a GT3 race somewhere in the world 52 weekends a year justabout, only 16 weekends a year for the Supercars, when you race more the odds are higher
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1 Apr 2018, 12:18 (Ref:3812279) | #71 | ||
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But when we compare 2017 Aust Gt to Supercars they are not. and they race much less in Aust GT |
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1 Apr 2018, 12:47 (Ref:3812288) | #72 | ||
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Can you name them? Only GT racing deaths I can think of in the last 5 years are Allan Simonsen (in an Aston GTE car, not a GT3 and in a freak accident that could have happened in just about any car) and that poor Italian guy in Lambo Supertrofeo (which isn't a GT3 car either).
That being said: there are different levels of safety in GT3, the safest car is probably the Mercedes with their carbon-fibre tub-within-the-tub concept, so ideally, something like that could be adopted for a production-based Supercar. |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
1 Apr 2018, 12:48 (Ref:3812289) | #73 | |
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1 Apr 2018, 13:10 (Ref:3812293) | #74 | ||
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1 Apr 2018, 20:48 (Ref:3812374) | #75 | ||
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I have been scouring the internet and can find no reference to ANY GT3 deaths in the past 5 years.
In point of fact, I cannot find ANY record of a driver death in a GT3 category race. So unless you can produce something I've been unable to find, your claim is a complete lie. |
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