Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by chavez

And for those that loved the sounds of hooves the roar of the horseless carriages was an assault on the senses.

Horse racing survived and thrived, though, and does to this day. So who knows, maybe the V8s will also be around 20 years from now even if only as a specialized piece of sports equipment rather than as something tied to how regular people get from A to B.

[blaarg]

TA Supercars, I can see where this is heading!

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Lets go even wilder,

Formula Supercar, use the S5000 car with a Chev/ Ford V8 supercar engine. Fast loud and no reliance at all relating to a car style. Even keep manufactures involved by suppling engines.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

Lets go even wilder,



Formula Supercar, use the S5000 car with a Chev/ Ford V8 supercar engine. Fast loud and no reliance at all relating to a car style. Even keep manufactures involved by suppling engines.

You mean like 80s Sports Sedans?

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[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Mixer

No because they are cheap, amateur Nascar knock-offs, and your comment makes it very obvious you havent read the Gen3, rules.

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Lots of spec components, talk of a spec motor. Lower body. Less downforce. Aims to be "more cost effective". Exclusively V8. Over half the grid will be models not for purchase in Australia. Seemingly no direct manufacturer involvment. Common chassis.

Other than that just polar opposite rules really...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I am, it's got VTEC, I like VTEC.

Just be careful when it kicks in - yo.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Just sayin' (add lightness and all that stuff!). There is a reason most vehicles at a hillclimb or track day are four cylinders, a four cylinder in a light car is plenty quick and it's obviously a lot cheaper to run and easier on a consumables than a full-size muscle car.

Might be the case for track days there in the UK and there are plenty of them here too but also plenty of V8 powered machines of one kind or another - depends on personal preferences I guess.

One of the big differences is torque and when comparing naturally aspirated to naturally aspirated, V8s are very strong when it comes to torque - it's partly why they've been so effective at Bathurst, the torque pulling up that steep hill really makes a difference. Once you're used to all that torque, it gets pretty addictive, probably just as much, or maybe even more than the Vtec "kick".

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

Lets go even wilder,

Formula Supercar, use the S5000 car with a Chev/ Ford V8 supercar engine. Fast loud and no reliance at all relating to a car style. Even keep manufactures involved by suppling engines.

How is the S5000 project going these days? Historically open wheel/formaula cars have never had a log life in this country and generally low interest from the fan base. The heyday was of course when the F1 drivers came out to race the Tasman cup and for a short period after that F5000. All our racing was in an open wheeler but facts are facts unfortunately.

[Beages]

The vibe seems to be that Gen 3 is going to be V8 exclusive. Has it been reported that way anywhere? Personally, i'd like to see different engine configurations.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

How is the S5000 project going these days? Historically open wheel/formaula cars have never had a log life in this country and generally low interest from the fan base.

Well, Formula Holden cars sound like garbage, a 3.8L pushrod 90-degree Buick V6 is no kind of racing engine! If they had been proper Formula 3000 cars with the proper 3L V8 engines like the domestic series in Japan and UK, I think the category could have done much better.

IMO, this is where S5000 has missed the mark by using the wrong type of V8 engine and not having enough aero. Proper V8 formula cars are a lot of fun and would be breaking domestic track records left right and centre, all while costing no more than a Supercar to run over a season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grnJgktivjI

Actually Formula 3.5 V8 (Dallara with enlarged Zytek Judd Formula 3000 engine) only cost 350,000EUR or 600,000AUD per season which is very reasonable for a car of that capability.

[S griffin]

The Formula V8 series had the right amount, none of those ugly flick ups you see in F1. Hence why you saw close action like that race at Spa

[Sandgroper]

xxxxx

[Casper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Well, Formula Holden cars sound like garbage, a 3.8L pushrod 90-degree Buick V6 is no kind of racing engine! If they had been proper Formula 3000 cars with the proper 3L V8 engines like the domestic series in Japan and UK, I think the category could have done much better.

IMO, this is where S5000 has missed the mark by using the wrong type of V8 engine and not having enough aero. Proper V8 formula cars are a lot of fun and would be breaking domestic track records left right and centre, all while costing no more than a Supercar to run over a season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grnJgktivjI

Actually Formula 3.5 V8 (Dallara with enlarged Zytek Judd Formula 3000 engine) only cost 350,000EUR or 600,000AUD per season which is very reasonable for a car of that capability.

But F5000 used stock blocks and was a roaring success world wide.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Beages

The vibe seems to be that Gen 3 is going to be V8 exclusive. Has it been reported that way anywhere? Personally, i'd like to see different engine configurations.

Gen2 allowed for 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder but no-one built one so they probably thought whats the point for gen3.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

But F5000 used stock blocks and was a roaring success world wide.

That was in the 1970's, arguably the time period where cast-iron pushrod V8s belong.

Even as an alloy block engine, a Coyote weighs about 195kg... That's 79kg more than a proper V8 racing engine, which is not really an acceptable weight penalty in a Formula car.

By the same token, even a stock-block 2L turbo would weigh around 133kg (Honda K20C1) and can be tuned to produce 600hp... Quite the improvement on the Ford Windsor Boss 302's 225kg!

[S griffin]

Did the series work in the long run though? It couldn't last forever as we have seen. What was good then may not work now

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Gen2 allowed for 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder but no-one built one so they probably thought whats the point for gen3.

By Gen 2, most of the new manufacturers had already left, and if you are not allowed to collect on the weight advantages or any other advantages, why would you bother to build one?

If Supercars had removed the minimum engine weight (and particularly the maximum power limit), then I think many entrants would have seriously considered building a 2-2.5L turbo-four (particularly if it was legal to crank up the boost, but even without that saving 90kg on the engine is attractive).

People seem to unanimously love the Benetton-BMW turbo four (likewise Ford touring car fans loving the iconic Sierra Cosworth), so I'm not sure why some Supercars fan are so against turbo fours?

By the same token, it remains inexplicable why turbocharged engines were ever banned from the Australian Touring Car Championship in the first place.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

By the same token, it remains inexplicable why turbocharged engines were ever banned from the Australian Touring Car Championship in the first place.

You post this **** so often maybe the mods could make it a ****ing sticky.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

By the same token, it remains inexplicable why turbocharged engines were ever banned from the Australian Touring Car Championship in the first place.

Because at that stage Australians still loved their V8s
Mind you fast forward 20 plus years maybe its time for change
THEN
Comes the parity saga as per all those years ago

On and on and on.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

)

By the same token, it remains inexplicable why turbocharged engines were ever banned from the Australian Touring Car Championship in the first place.

Or had been banned from F1 a few years previously.

Or the DTM.

Or the BTCC

Or the World Sports Car Championship.

It was generally agreed rightly or wrongly turbo charged engines were an unnecessary expense and the sport would be better served by moving to naturally aspirated engines.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by chavez

Or had been banned from F1 a few years previously.

Or the DTM.

Or the BTCC

Or the World Sports Car Championship.

It was generally agreed rightly or wrongly turbo charged engines were an unnecessary expense and the sport would be better served by moving to naturally aspirated engines.

And they're now present in all of those series again.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Well, Formula Holden cars sound like garbage, a 3.8L pushrod 90-degree Buick V6 is no kind of racing engine! If they had been proper Formula 3000 cars with the proper 3L V8 engines like the domestic series in Japan and UK, I think the category could have done much better. .

It's would've died quicker because Australian motor racing is not big enough to sustain a mid range open wheeler series. F3000 is a European class as a stepping stone to F1.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

People seem to unanimously love the Benetton-BMW turbo four (likewise Ford touring car fans loving the iconic Sierra Cosworth), so I'm not sure why some Supercars fan are so against turbo fours?

I could tell you, but I'd get another infraction from Adam.

Originally Posted by Beages

The vibe seems to be that Gen 3 is going to be V8 exclusive. Has it been reported that way anywhere? Personally, i'd like to see different engine configurations.

Beages is the "Quiet Australian (motor racing fan)" Scott Morrison refers to.

Tired and bored with the same nonsense we've seen for decades, and having "Strayan's want V8's mate, it's out DNA" and "how great the racing is" banged over his head.

He just wants a normal, straight down the line, egalitarian touring car series that's Australian. He's not interested in chest puffing or inflated opinions of itself. He will never ever get that though thanks to a self interested clique.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by one five five

Precisely, and criticism’s were levelled at Group A because of it, and one of the main drivers behind the formation of the V8 rules for 1993 was getting back to cars that Australians could buy....

.....and here we are now lauding a Camaro entering the series.....a car which cannot be bought in Australia now.....

Supercars making it all up as they go along , no matter the hypocrisy of it all, as usual

This is another way of saying "double standards" like I have. Not that one five five should get an infraction or warned about it. But I've been saying a fact and been getting infractions and warning about it. I haven't said anything bad. It's just the disadvantage with foreigners having the minimum interest in Australian domestic car racing culture.

Originally Posted by Mixer

I think a lot of you are missing the point here.

No one's missing the point.

Originally Posted by Mixer

The point is being able to build and race a car with tacit approval to use the shape from the manufacturer, but not requiring millions of dollars in funding to do it. It is 888 and likely WAU putting together a model for how the series can survive. The ongoing availability of the Camaro is irrelevant.

Wow, and you'd think this oblivious to how disinterested you are in car racing as well.

Originally Posted by Mixer

So you can't currently buy a Camaro... They were sold in that shape and are on the road in Australia, by one of the teams in the series, and the name of that organisation is on the car. What more do you want?

A touring cars series that is reflective of modern motoring in Australia that is egalitarian.

[Mixer]

Disinterested in car racing you say? At least I am talking about car racing while you do nothing but steal my oxygen.

Btw Bathurst was a belter, pity the 2 litre cars couldn't pull their finger out of their back passage to put on a race for the FERVENT MOTOR RACING FANS WHO LOVE 2 LITRE CARS THAT ARE NOT PART OF THE CLIQUE

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[S griffin]

I think we all love car racing on here, and I do try and keep up to date with the Supercars series when I can

I agree Bathurst was great, even if it wasn't quite the event it could have been. I think the Supercars are fine the way they are, no need to change the formula for whatever reason, we might see other tin top series like TCR thrive in Australia, but for now the Supercars is where the action is and we should stick with it

[one five five]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

is the "Quiet Australian (motor racing fan)" Scott Morrison refers to.

Tired and bored with the same nonsense we've seen for decades, and having "Strayan's want V8's mate, it's out DNA" and "how great the racing is" banged over his head.

He just wants a normal, straight down the line, egalitarian touring car series that's Australian. He's not interested in chest puffing or inflated opinions of itself. He will never ever get that though thanks to a self interested clique.

Well said