[WTCC] 2017 WTCC News & Rumours

[Go_For_Pole]

How long is Eurosport's contract with FIA for the promotion of WTCC? If it's up for replacement, then TCR could be bid

[Lanti]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

How long is Eurosport's contract with FIA for the promotion of WTCC? If it's up for replacement, then TCR could be bid

It is not that simple to become a World Championship. First you need to have at least two real manufacturer teams. It rules out TCR because the whole concept is based on customer racing. You also have to go to at least 3 continents (it is ok for TCR). In 2005 when ETCC become a World Championship it was also one of the conditions that Eurosport Events has to be the promoter because the FIA wanted a financially strong organization to stand behind WTCC.

TCR does and will not have real works teams and I doubt that FIA would consider WSC a financially strong organization (in 2005 it was the previous company of Marcello Lotti called KSO that was bought by Eurosport Events). So I don't think it is possible to make a World Championship from TCR.

[Lanti]

Originally Posted by Alessio

Perhaps WTCC take on TCR regulations and permit manufacturers, move TCR International to become the new ETCC to allow privateers to have a playground to play in without having to match the high costs required to fight the manufacturers? WTCC and TCR Int. can't survive together with both under TCR regulations anyway.

TCR with manufacturer presence is almost identical with S2000 which was the regulation before TC1. We all know that no manufacturer was interested in that anymore. Also if you let manufacturers in the costs will rise significantly.

Moreover the closeness of whole TCR category is based on BoP, but it cannot work with manufacturer teams.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Lanti

TCR with manufacturer presence is almost identical with S2000 which was the regulation before TC1. We all know that no manufacturer was interested in that anymore. Also if you let manufacturers in the costs will rise significantly.

Moreover the closeness of whole TCR category is based on BoP, but it cannot work with manufacturer teams.

Disagreed. TCR is a hell of a lot cheaper than S2000 was and looks more spectacular. Those were the 2 reasons S2000 fell out of grace if I'm not mistaken.

Also, S2000 WTCC had BoP as well. They just called it 'dispensations' back in those days...

[S griffin]

S2000 I enjoyed, the racing was close and there were plenty of makes involved, just not that many as there could have been in the WTCC. TCR could work, with a few rules tweaks to let manufacturers in and no more BOP

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Lanti

It is not that simple to become a World Championship. First you need to have at least two real manufacturer teams.

Stephane Ratel's short-lived GT1 World Championship had no manufacturer teams whatsoever. Unless there have been some significant changes since 2012, TCR should be good.

[Matt]

I miss the high strung n/a screamers of S2000

[Lanti]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Disagreed. TCR is a hell of a lot cheaper than S2000 was and looks more spectacular. Those were the 2 reasons S2000 fell out of grace if I'm not mistaken.

Also, S2000 WTCC had BoP as well. They just called it 'dispensations' back in those days...

I did not say it costs the same now. But believe me with some manufacturer involvement TCR would be very soon as expensive as S2000 was. The secret of TCR is customer racing. You build a lot of cars, you sell a lot of spare parts with no significant development cost for years.

And outlook is subjective. I prefer S2000 to TCR for example.

Yes, WTCC HAD BoP. It does not have since TC1. At least not officially. Of course we still hear some irregularities but who knows.

As far as I know the problem with S2000 was not the costs. The problem was that no manufacturers were interested in entering.

[Lanti]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Stephane Ratel's short-lived GT1 World Championship had no manufacturer teams whatsoever. Unless there have been some significant changes since 2012, TCR should be good.

Yes it was quite a strage thing. I think it should have been something like BMW in 2011. There were no works team but some manufacturers officially entered the manufacturers championship to keep the series alive. But I do not have exact information.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Lanti

Moreover the closeness of whole TCR category is based on BoP, but it cannot work with manufacturer teams.

Of course it can, see GT3.

[Matt K]

As far as I'm concerned, TCR should become, let's say, main 'sprint' touring car category in the world, as WTCC should merge with DTM to create 96 ITC and Supercars inspired championship with more powerful cars, longer races with pit stops, etc. For now, I don't see any future for WTCC as it is.

[Lanti]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Of course it can, see GT3.

Actually there are no full factory teams in GT3! However you are right that there is a GT category with BoP: GTE in WEC.

But BoP is for customer racing. Think like a manufacturer. You finance you team to develop a good car, which is than pegged back to be on the same level with the others. Why would you spend a heap of money on development is in the and it will only bring you more weight, reduced turbo pressure etc. BoP can limit development, that's why it is good for customer racing, but if you have a full factory team you don't want to be pulled back when you have found something.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Lanti

Actually there are no full factory teams in GT3! However you are right that there is a GT category with BoP: GTE in WEC.

But BoP is for customer racing. Think like a manufacturer. You finance you team to develop a good car, which is than pegged back to be on the same level with the others. Why would you spend a heap of money on development is in the and it will only bring you more weight, reduced turbo pressure etc. BoP can limit development, that's why it is good for customer racing, but if you have a full factory team you don't want to be pulled back when you have found something.

In theory you're right, but in reality a system without BoP or standardized parts results in a development battle where the manufacturer wins who throws the most money at it, quickly killing the series. We've seen this way too often in the past, so its just not realistic to imagine such a championship without BoP.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Lanti

Actually there are no full factory teams in GT3! However you are right that there is a GT category with BoP: GTE in WEC.

But BoP is for customer racing. Think like a manufacturer. You finance you team to develop a good car, which is than pegged back to be on the same level with the others. Why would you spend a heap of money on development is in the and it will only bring you more weight, reduced turbo pressure etc. BoP can limit development, that's why it is good for customer racing, but if you have a full factory team you don't want to be pulled back when you have found something.

I think you can call M-Sport (Bentley) a factory team.
But okay GT3 has not full factory teams but teams like WRT, HTP, Kus get factory backing and aren't less professional than JAS and Polestar.

But why not the same formula like in GT3. Teams are supplied with factory drivers, money and marketing support by manufacturers? It works in GT3, why not in TCR?

[Matt K]

But why not the same formula like in GT3. Teams are supplied with factory drivers, money and marketing support by manufacturers? It works in GT3, why not in TCR?

I agree, especially because I've got the feeling that manufacturers are more and more interested in TCR cars. Look at Hyundai. They are deeply involved in i30 TCR. It's not like some team built their Hyundai, it is actually work of Hyundai. Nobody said that manufacturers should be involved in a way they are in DTM, WTCC or WRC but there can be at least factory- backed teams, officially representing manufacturers, something like BTCC. That would increase the level and professionalism of the category IMHO

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Lanti

Actually there are no full factory teams in GT3! However you are right that there is a GT category with BoP: GTE in WEC.

But BoP is for customer racing. Think like a manufacturer. You finance you team to develop a good car, which is than pegged back to be on the same level with the others. Why would you spend a heap of money on development is in the and it will only bring you more weight, reduced turbo pressure etc. BoP can limit development, that's why it is good for customer racing, but if you have a full factory team you don't want to be pulled back when you have found something.

Acura and Lexus in the USA.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Matt

Acura and Lexus in the USA.

Got to admit 'Audi Sport Team WRT' and 'Mercedes AMG Team HTP' are about 90% factory teams when it really comes down to it

I'd like to see the same style of factory support for TCR international. As in, supply support team staff, and factory drivers...

But keep solely privateer in national series

This and a improved schedule would allow TCR international to trump WTCC and DTM for top spot in the single class tourer world


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tarzaan]

Hi guys!

Some notes for this discussion:

1 - Imho the FIA has the power to modify their own rules about the rwquired criterias of a world championship.

2 - Imho the criteria is not 2 manufacturer but 2 constructor, so non factory backed constructions also could counts

My prediction about WTCC:

They could continue 1 or 2 season with TC1 rules, but if the DTM introduce the SuperGT rules, I guess Honda will switch, and maybe Volvo follow them.

In that situation WTCC will end or merge with the TCR Internacional like ChampCar did with IRL or ALMS with GrandAm. WTCC gives the Eurosport, TCR gives the cars/field.

[NaBUru38]

I don't think that TCR is intrested in becoming a FIA Championship. It would be very costly and have no return.

[Mark0994]

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...t-china-japan/
Filipe de Souza joins RC Motorsport for China and Japan

[FIRE]

RC Motorsport is a welcome addition to WTCC.

[Rubio]

Considering the latest manufacturer shifts between series (to Formula E), it seems traditional motorsport is no longer puts so much interest for them.

Maybe FIA should think about world championships based only only on customer racing. I think TCR could work in WTCC but only if there will be no manufacturer teams. Otherwise, as it was said here, the cost would really significantly rise.

Shift to Class 1 could be also great, but puts championship into jeopardy, because that could be only a full-manufacturer based series which may then leave and go to Formula E.

Also, I feel there could be a change of promoter after 2017.

[Alessio]

As unpopular as it would be to traditionalists, what if WTCC became eTCC as in Electric Touring Car Championship? Surely this would be attractive to manufacturers and would provide a reason to fund a programme as it would essentially develop the electric road car branch of entered manufacturers

[S griffin]

They're already planning an e-tin top series to support Formula E

[NaBUru38]

Electric rallycross and electric karting are great ideas.

Back to touring car racing, my view is that the World Championship era is sadly gone. The WTCC will implode soon. TCR International is successful and international, but to me it's not a proper world championship.

I mean, big audiences want extremely fast cars, not 300hp Civics and Corollas. We are a minority.