LMS 2011 Discussion

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Someone please explain to me what these guys are confused about. Sebastien Bourdais set the fastest race lap of the Peugeot 908's by over a second in an ill handling car. The car was 908 slow(relatively speaking to the Audi). Seabass still wheeled it around to a 3.26.298. 1.7 seconds faster than the next best peugeot. Bourdais did this. Am i missing something?

Yes, you obviously missed his horrible last two stints when Bourdais was doing 3:32s or worse while Davidson was putting down 3:28s in a row. That was the stage when Peugeot finally lost the race to Audi because Bourdais was unable to post good lap times.

And before somebody starts making up excuses, no, it wasn't the car... as soon as Pagenaud took over for the final stint the times were instantly there.

I´m amazed that so few people have actually picked up on his disappointing performance.

As for Wurz, he's an obvious choice. Despite his mistake, he and Ant were the quickest and most consistant drivers on the Peugeot squad.. the #7 showed the best performance despite Gene being kind of Lamy-ish.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Yes, you obviously missed his horrible last two stints when Bourdais was doing 3:32s or worse while Davidson was putting down 3:28s in a row. That was the stage when Peugeot finally lost the race to Audi because Bourdais was unable to post good lap times.

And before somebody starts making up excuses, no, it wasn't the car... as soon as Pagenaud took over for the final stint the times were instantly there.

I´m amazed that so few people have actually picked up on his disappointing performance.

As for Wurz, he's an obvious choice. Despite his mistake, he and Ant were the quickest and most consistant drivers on the Peugeot squad.. the #7 showed the best performance despite Gene being kind of Lamy-ish.

There was a problem. The radio broke in Bourdais car. He had no idea what his fuel or tires etc... were like. In addition it;s already been discussed to death that the 908 wasn't handling all that well....It actually was the car. The times were never their for Pagenaud either. Pagenaud had to drive in the rain(how could he have been going faster than Bourdais in the dry).........What might he be referencing?


Olivier Quesnel has specifically stated that they put their sprint drivers in the cars for Imola. (Sarrazin-Montagny,Bourdais-Davidson)

We fully expect a very closely fought contest throughout the six hours at Imola. That’s why we are entering two Peugeot 908s driven by sprinters. Sébastien Bourdais and Anthony Davidson will team up for the first time in the number 7. Franck Montagny and Stéphane Sarrazin will be back together in the number 8.”

-Planetlemans

I'm pretty sure Olivier Quesnel knows more about who;s quick than anyone on this forum.......And he chose sarrazin-montagny and Bourdais-Davidson.

Either you guys are wrong or Oliveir Quesnel is wrong......

[isynge]

Pleased to see Alex Premat in the #49 Oak Pescarolo for Imola with Nicolet.

The second Oak entry always struck me as a much more natural fit with LMP2 and with that combination there's the scope for a good run. Also nice to see DAMS continue to be involved - be great to see them deepen their involvement.

[JAG]

Looks like in 2012 the series will scrap P1, but interestingly they won't have a GT3 class, the junior GT class will be for Porsche and Ferrari cup cars.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

Looks like in 2012 the series will scrap P1, but interestingly they won't have a GT3 class, the junior GT class will be for Porsche and Ferrari cup cars.

According to what RLM were saying, I believe they said the races will be separate from the WEC events (not unexpected), 4 hours each, and 3 or 4 rounds? I forgot what they said. Did I summarize that correctly?

[JAG]

It shows Peter is more interested in large grids, and catering to needs of amateur drivers, than appealing to fans and media.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing, finding your own niche is sensible.

IMO, these moves are good for the ALMS, the difficulty of balancing GT3 with GTE, backs up their stance, more importantly, there's going to be quite a number LMP's, all of which cannot race in the WEC.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by JAG

It shows Peter is more interested in large grids, and catering to needs of amateur drivers, than appealing to fans and media.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing, finding your own niche is sensible.

IMO, these moves are good for the ALMS, the difficulty of balancing GT3 with GTE, backs up their stance, more importantly, there's going to be quite a number LMP's, all of which cannot race in the WEC.

I'm not shure we will see large grids - in LMS and WEC - compared with the 50 car grids of the shared races at present... and where does it leave the teams in P1 operating with smaller budgets... and/or are not interested in racing outside of Europe? We will loose P1 and receive Porsche Cup cars and Ferrari Challenge cars... hmm - plus shorter races, plus less races... hmm... If anything I would call all the stuff downsizing...

[AGD]

Originally Posted by carsten66

I'm not shure we will see large grids - in LMS and WEC - compared with the 50 car grids of the shared races at present... and where does it leave the teams in P1 operating with smaller budgets... and/or are not interested in racing outside of Europe? We will loose P1 and receive Porsche Cup cars and Ferrari Challenge cars... hmm - plus shorter races, plus less races... hmm... If anything I would call all the stuff downsizing...

Some good points here. I liked the 6 hour races. 4 is still pretty good, but it's not really an endurance test for most of the cars these days. I guess it is better for TV though. Who knows where they will race though.

As far as LMP1 goes, I believe there are only 3 LMS full-time LMP1s at the moment with Quifel ASM pulling out at the moment and two of those cars are Rebellions and they have a car in the ILMC as well. The other car is Pescarolo and Henri has stated that he would like to do the ILMC next year (as it was still called back then - who knows if that position has changed). I guess one could count the Guess Europ and MIK Corse cars as well, but they have not done a full season this year (or any races at all in the case of Guess).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by carsten66

I'm not shure we will see large grids - in LMS and WEC - compared with the 50 car grids of the shared races at present... and where does it leave the teams in P1 operating with smaller budgets... and/or are not interested in racing outside of Europe? We will loose P1 and receive Porsche Cup cars and Ferrari Challenge cars... hmm - plus shorter races, plus less races... hmm... If anything I would call all the stuff downsizing...

Of the P1 LMS runners, Pescarolo and Rebellion have said they indend to move to the WEC, with two cars apiece. If a teams budget is severally limited, or they don't wish to race outside Europe, P2 makes more sense.

LMS is not aimed at fans, anyone who's been to races, as compared to the ILMC or ALMS, will back that up, the focus must be large grids, and developing teams/drivers.

[NaBUru38]

Standings after 3 / 5 rounds:

LMP1 Teams:

1. Pescarolo (Pescarolo-Judd), 28
2. Rebellion (Lola-Toyota), 28
3. Quifel ASM (Zytek), 9
4. MIK (Zytek), 2
5. Aston Martin (Aston Martin), 0

LMP2 Teams:

1. Greaves, 35
2. Strakka, 30
3. Boutsen, 25
4. TDS, 23
5. Pecom, 22
6. RLR Msport, 17
7. Extreme Limite, 14
8. Race Performance, 13
9. RML, 8

FLM Teams:

1. Pegasus, 41
2. Genoa, 34
3. JMB, 32
4. Hope, 27
5. Neil Garner, 21

GTE Pro Teams:

1. AF Corse (Ferrari), 46
2. Farmbacher (Ferrari), 25
3. JMW (Ferrari), 22
4. Felbermayr (Porsche), 16
5. Prospeed (Porsche), 15
6. Jota (Aston Martin), 14
7. IMSA Performance (Porsche), 8

[AGD]

Dagys sent out a new Tweet saying that the Porsches will get a 25kg weight break in ACO racing. All the GTE-Pro Porsche teams are in the LMS so I guess this is the most relevant thread for this. I apologize if it isn't. The IMSA Porsches will run at 1235kg starting at Mid-Ohio, ACO Porsches will run at 1220kg.

[Spyderman]

It looks like no LMP1 in LMS and the GTC will join.

[Speed-King]

I like the part about 5-6 rounds on famous European circuits... maybe when can at least get a German LMS round if we have to do without a WEC race...

[Samoan Attorney]

And six hour races

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

And six hour races

I would prefer 1000k for the LMS races.... it'll be kinda odd, when there are two" 6 hours of Spa" on the track's schedule.

[dj choc ice]

I can only see the abolition of LMP1 in the LMS hurting the series and potentially forcing some of the smaller LMP1 teams or potential LMP1 teams into running in LMP2. Not a good thing in my opinion as LMP1 will eventually become smaller and smaller and will cease to exist. The idea to separate the LMS away from the WEC is a poor move as well. Just look at the grids we have had so far at the ILMC/LMS races. All I hope is that Silverstone remains on the WEC calender, this move has further dented my faith in the ACO and there wasn't exactly a lot there to begin with.

[Deleted]

Agreed it's not a brilliant move by any means, but at least this separation now means that LMS and their teams won't be treated as forgotten second class citizens anymore... ACO and their media coverage has been pretty darn bad when it comes to weekend's non-ILMC headlines.

IMO Sebring and PLM have fared much better, you can see how it's an ALMS event first, ILMC second. And IMSA clearly doesn't wanna play second fiddle for too long

[AGD]

So here is the official announcement.

There are some surprises as compared to the rumors. The class structure is the same as the rumors, but the races will be 6 hours instead of the rumored 4 and there will be 5 or 6 races instead of the rumored 4 or 5 (I think). All in all, I think those are positive developments.

As for LMP1, I'm not sure how many LMP1s they would have had anyway. Pescarolo plans on going to the WEC. Rebellion is already in the ILMC with one car. Who knows what Amaral's team is up to. Maybe they will go back to LMP2. That's pretty much the whole LMP1 grid in the LMS at the moment! Meanwhile, the LMP2 grid is very healty in the LMS at the moment. Anyway, it definitely cements the LMS as a pro-am series with a reasonable cost structure for participants. In a way it would have been nice to keep LMP1 around, why not? But then again, if all the action is in LMP2, maybe they should just focus on it. LMP2 could be pretty exciting. There is a lot of potential for that class especially if Mazda, Ferrari, MG, Ford, etc. make competitive equipment.

As for why the LMS and WEC aren't competing together, I'm not sure if the LMS had a choice. First, grids have been over-subscribed at times. Second, the LMS wants to control their TV rights. They probably have a better European TV deal than the ILMC, but that could change for next year. We'll see. Finally, the LMS teams have been treated as second class citizens at the shared events.

Anyway, aside from wondering where the races will be, I wonder if any WEC or LMS races will clash with ALMS races. Someone would be foolish to conflict the WEC with the ALMS, but who knows. ALMS and LMS have conflicted before, but I'm hoping that won't be the case. Also, I wonder if the LMS will get auto-invites to the 24 hours in some way.

[Speed-King]

There is a lot of potential for that class especially if Mazda, Ferrari, MG, Ford, etc. make competitive equipment.

Yeah, works teams or not, having all these nameplates in the class should really help with casual spectators... now if only the Judd would be labelled as a BMW...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by LMS.com

This last category will gather « One make series » cars such as the Porsche Carrera Cup or Ferrari Challenge

Such as? So perhaps more models will be allowed than just those two mentioned? This is already sounding better than that other GTC class...

As for the 20-25 prototype grid sizes, do they really believe that LMS is gonna gather that many entries with P2 and FLM alone?

[seanyb505]

It looks like the only real way to compete in the top class at Le Mans will be to be part of the WEC if there are no P1s in the LMS to give invites to.

[Speed-King]

I supposse GTC could also include the Ginetta G55 and the Lambo Supertrofeo. The Lambos race against Cup-Porsches and Ferraris in Italian GT and the Ginetta has a national GT3 homologation in the UK, but I am pretty sure it could be brought to Porsche Cup-niveau rather easily.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Such as? So perhaps more models will be allowed than just those two mentioned? This is already sounding better than that other GTC class...

Besides Porsche and Ferrari, what other one make series are there? Lambo's? Isn't there an Aston championship in Asia? Ginetta's in the UK?

edit: Speed-King beat me to the punch by a few seconds!

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Such as? So perhaps more models will be allowed than just those two mentioned? This is already sounding better than that other GTC class...

As for the 20-25 prototype grid sizes, do they really believe that LMS is gonna gather that many entries with P2 and FLM alone?

Well, looking at the LMS 2011 full season teams, the combined number of FLMs and LMP2s is 16. That's not far off 20. We'll see.

It'll be interesting to see how many of the prototypes in the LMS next year are based off of the Courage LC75! Obviously the FLMs will be, but the Oreca 03s and HPDs as well.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yeah, works teams or not, having all these nameplates in the class should really help with casual spectators... now if only the Judd would be labelled as a BMW...

Plus Lotus, we can't forget about them.

The performance of the Judd has been a bit iffy. It hasn't been slow, but it hasn't been a Nissan beater either. I do wonder how much balancing the ACO will do with LMP2. My hope is that the answer will be not too much!

LMP2 today may not be what it was in the ALMS in 2008, but it's a lot better than what a lot of people feared in the off-season. Some of the drivers have been revelations and reliability has been better than expected. The battle between the cost-capped HPDs and cost-capped Nissans may be, if nothing else, quite good. Anyway, call me strange but I rather enjoy LMP2. It'll be nice for it to get the spotlight once again.

Originally Posted by seanyb505

It looks like the only real way to compete in the top class at Le Mans will be to be part of the WEC if there are no P1s in the LMS to give invites to.

True, although WEC teams will automatically get a Le Mans invite so there is always that. Maybe they can go to the ALMS, although there is some talk that a combined LMP1-LMP2 class may be possible there again next year. It's too early to say about that. Perhaps LMS LMP2 champions should get an auto-invite to either LMP1 or LMP2?

[Speed-King]

The Aston one-make-series are all GT4-spec, so probably too slow to keep up with a proper Cup-Porsche.

Perhaps LMS LMP2 champions should get an auto-invite to either LMP1 or LMP2?

Sounds sensible to me.