[iV8SC12R22&R23] Armor All Gold Coast 600 - 19-21 Oct

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

180,000 over 3 days makes its Australia's 4th biggest motrsport event, and only just smaller than Bathurst (bigger some years) which is why your last comment regarding Bathurst is really a bit old fashioned. The series has moved on Bathurst is an important race, but by no means the biggest any more. I'm not sure what event you would think the 180k would go to, I think you just made that up

you asked me what's wrong with finishing in October and then told me. NRL and AFL, no one thinks we are bigger than those sports (maybe you do?)

you ask what's wrong with down time. firstly not sure how much leave you get off work, assuming you still work, but typical most people get 4 weeks. but then most people work 5 weeks. start of December to end of Feb is nearly 3 months, that's down time.

If you believe those BS figures, you've been into your stash of weed again.
Are you really under the impression , that there were 180,000 actual race fans there over the weekend. It's been mentioned countless times before how they do their "counting". Bathurst attracts its annual attendance figures, because people actually go there for the racing. Heck, the place hasn't got much else going for it.
The Gold Coast event is a circus with its sideshow attractions to attract the feeble minded. Then of course, there is the counting of the local residents who are annually trapped into viewing the event that they have no interest in whatsoever, and that includes the ones who shoot threw and get out of town for the weekend.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

If you believe those BS figures, you've been into your stash of weed again.
Are you really under the impression , that there were 180,000 actual race fans there over the weekend. It's been mentioned countless times before how they do their "counting". Bathurst attracts its annual attendance figures, because people actually go there for the racing. Heck, the place hasn't got much else going for it.
The Gold Coast event is a circus with its sideshow attractions to attract the feeble minded. Then of course, there is the counting of the local residents who are annually trapped into viewing the event that they have no interest in whatsoever, and that includes the ones who shoot threw and get out of town for the weekend.

I am aware that some people are often triple counted, same as every other motor racing event in austrlia.

But as you cant justify your additional stuff, it carries little value

[Woolley]

So now I've actually seen it (curses MotorsTV, you used to run this 'as live' on the same week-end)

There's a lot to be said for rolling starts if the internationals are going first. Primarily open-wheel racers clearly find a heavy saloon on sticky tyres tough to get moving. I'd also advocate on the shortened circuit bypassing the 1st chicane on the first lap. Corner 2 is a much better 1st corner having room for a decent 2-wide approach.

Yellows on the first start. Difficult. Nobody actually stalled, just a bad getaway. Grid marshals wouldn't go yellow for that, but once the shunt had started they hadn't actually reached the first flag point. That said, grid marshals' yellows didn't help much on the second start.

Track width is an issue. It is just over 3 cars wide, but there's nowhere left to go when one of them is filled with something stationary. The kink makes it even more difficult to take avoiding action.

I still find it exciting watching the track with the thought of 'I've been there, done that'. Happy days.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by peckstar

180,000 over 3 days makes its Australia's 4th biggest motrsport event, and only just smaller than Bathurst (bigger some years) which is why your last comment regarding

It's not really saying much for motorsport in Australia.

Originally Posted by peckstar

Bathurst is really a bit old fashioned. The series has moved on Bathurst is an important race, but by no means the biggest any more. I'm not sure what event you would think the 180k would go to, I think you just made that up

The series hasn't moved on anywhere, except being exponentially more expensive and overrated.

Originally Posted by peckstar

you asked me what's wrong with finishing in October and then told me. NRL and AFL, no one thinks we are bigger than those sports (maybe you do?)

What, you think one day, if the industry spends enough money, it will become bigger than those two? You think motorsport is more significant to the wider community than footy codes? Lol! Even F1 isn't as popular in European countires as their domestic soccer leagues, and you can forget about anything motorsport compared to the NFL/NBA in America. Motor racing, generally speaking, isn't important, in a mainstream sense.

Originally Posted by peckstar

you ask what's wrong with down time. firstly not sure how much leave you get off work, assuming you still work, but typical most people get 4 weeks. but then most people work 5 weeks. start of December to end of Feb is nearly 3 months, that's down time.

3 months is almost no time as a serious break in a sporting competition.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

It's not really saying much for motorsport in Australia.

The series hasn't moved on anywhere, except being exponentially more expensive and overrated.

What, you think one day, if the industry spends enough money, it will become bigger than those two? You think motorsport is more significant to the wider community than footy codes? Lol! Even F1 isn't as popular in European countires as their domestic soccer leagues, and you can forget about anything motorsport compared to the NFL/NBA in America. Motor racing, generally speaking, isn't important, in a mainstream sense.

3 months is almost no time as a serious break in a sporting competition.

and 180k over 3 days is a big crowd, its bigger than many NASCAR events, its bigger than DTM and its bigger than a number of F1 rounds.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by peckstar

and 180k over 3 days is a big crowd, its bigger than many NASCAR events, its bigger than DTM and its bigger than a number of F1 rounds.

Peckstar NASCAR over 100,000 a day at Bristol plus well over 200,00 a meeting at Talledaga.

NASCAR is the biggest crowd attending sport in the gold old USA.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by TSR

Peckstar NASCAR over 100,000 a day at Bristol plus well over 200,00 a meeting at Talledaga.

NASCAR is the biggest crowd attending sport in the gold old USA.

I'm aware NASCAR gets bigger crowds to some events, as they should, But to others they dont for instance at Martinville this weekend it was 60k on race day

Plus the 3 day crowd does not hold up the same

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by TSR

Peckstar NASCAR over 100,000 a day at Bristol plus well over 200,00 a meeting at Talledaga.

NASCAR is the biggest crowd attending sport in the gold old USA.

technically NFL has higher average crowd attendances for every game, But NASCAR do hold the highest attendance for any race in the world. at Indy 500 with over 350,000 attending one time.

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by TSR

Peckstar NASCAR over 100,000 a day at Bristol plus well over 200,00 a meeting at Talledaga.

NASCAR is the biggest crowd attending sport in the gold old USA.

Yup well over 20,000 at Talledaga about 88,000 for the second race and 108,000 first race

Check out the "official" numbers here
http://www.jayski.com/pages/tracks-seating.htm


Also don't kid yourself that Nascar don't use creative counting as well, like most sports would do when they count how many people are at venues

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I am aware that some people are often triple counted, same as every other motor racing event in austrlia.

But as you cant justify your additional stuff, it carries little value

What a load of rubbish you do talk!
As a taxpayer, I am completely over the way sports and entertainment promoters use these methods of counting attendance figures to continue to bleed government funding to support their events, and then walk away with a truckload of money. This is done, all under the guise of supporting the locals and promoting the State. What a crock! Then you talk about justification.
Oh, and must anybody with an opposing opinion to yours, be labelled a troll? Get over yourself, old man.

[Purist]

Would you rather have NO professional sports or live entertainment at all?! Racetracks, sports stadiums, and concert venues all get public funding in many countries. It's kind of hard for anybody to have any kind of 'big" event without those BIG venues being available to use.

(Almost posted this with the last word "sue" rather than "use". That could have been interesting.)

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

What a load of rubbish you do talk!
As a taxpayer, I am completely over the way sports and entertainment promoters use these methods of counting attendance figures to continue to bleed government funding to support their events, and then walk away with a truckload of money. This is done, all under the guise of supporting the locals and promoting the State. What a crock! Then you talk about justification.
Oh, and must anybody with an opposing opinion to yours, be labelled a troll? Get over yourself, old man.

why do you have an issue with someone buying a 3 day ticket and being counted as being there on 3 days, Thats a very unintelligent comment. It shows a lack of understanding, The government are aware this, you are aware of it whats the problem?
And whats this truck load of money they walk away with you talk about. that is a completly baseless argument that has no factual support at all (although maybe you are talking a kids toy truck, i can accept that they walk away with that)

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by FAS33

technically NFL has higher average crowd attendances for every game, But NASCAR do hold the highest attendance for any race in the world. at Indy 500 with over 350,000 attending one time.

NASCAR of course have nothing whatsoever to do with the Indy 500.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

What a load of rubbish you do talk!
As a taxpayer, I am completely over the way sports and entertainment promoters use these methods of counting attendance figures to continue to bleed government funding to support their events, and then walk away with a truckload of money. This is done, all under the guise of supporting the locals and promoting the State. What a crock! Then you talk about justification.

Could be worse - you could have the govt spending tens of millions on events that have no way of measuring crowds - such as Vivid in Sydney for example - vast amount of money spent, no ticketing so no measurement.

Ultimately, govts will spend where they think it's appropriate for quality of life benefits to locals, inbound tourism and PR coverage of their govt area. As the govts concerned know how promoters measure their attendance, then I where's the issue?

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Tourer

NASCAR of course have nothing whatsoever to do with the Indy 500.

your right I confused myself there, Indy cars was meant to say

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Could be worse - you could have the govt spending tens of millions on events that have no way of measuring crowds - such as Vivid in Sydney for example - vast amount of money spent, no ticketing so no measurement.

Ultimately, govts will spend where they think it's appropriate for quality of life benefits to locals, inbound tourism and PR coverage of their govt area. As the govts concerned know how promoters measure their attendance, then I where's the issue?

The issue is the continuous disposal of $$$ down the drain on events such as the Surfers Paradise race, and for what result? From what I've seen and heard it's about 70/30. The local residents hate it, and the local business people who can make a buck love it. But therein lies the issue. Somebody else (the govt/taxpayer) is coughing up the $6million (this year) to supposedly generate business and income into the area.
Ernst and Young stated way back in 1995 that the race (as it was then) "does not provide a net benefit to Queenslanders". I would suggest that with what would now be upwards of $100 million poured into this black hole, that the position has not changed and that the option of a permanent facility just up the road should be seriously looked at. Just imagine if a fraction of that amount of money was invested in a permanent circuit, still in the Gold Coast- Brisbane corridor. Sure, the immediate Surfers Paradise area would then miss out, but others would gain. There seems to be a distinct lack of more up to date information in recent times, but with Newmans razor gangs on the case, I think we will be hearing more in the near future.

[SouthAussie94]

The problem with permanent venues in general is that they aren't as 'in your face' as street circuits and are less likely to attract casual fans. A street circuit causes disruption to an area, with people able to see the event building in the months and weeks prior. This builds anticipation of the event. A permanent circuit just doesn't have this effect, with extra advertising needed to attract a crowd.

[fordo]

Mike Winlaw CEO of the Surfers Paradise Alliance (Business Group) stated in the local rag that Surfers traders recieved no benefit from this years event and that there were more intoxicated younger folk hanging around Cavall Mall during the days when the racing was on who were only there for the concerts at night. I myself had to throw some out of my place of work in the mall on the Saturday arvo. I asked them what their deal was and why they had to stir up trouble and the answer was "they were there to party". What about the racing ? " Lots of laughing, nah man who cares. Lets party"

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

The issue is the continuous disposal of $$$ down the drain on events such as the Surfers Paradise race, and for what result? From what I've seen and heard it's about 70/30. The local residents hate it, and the local business people who can make a buck love it. But therein lies the issue. Somebody else (the govt/taxpayer) is coughing up the $6million (this year) to supposedly generate business and income into the area.
Ernst and Young stated way back in 1995 that the race (as it was then) "does not provide a net benefit to Queenslanders". I would suggest that with what would now be upwards of $100 million poured into this black hole, that the position has not changed and that the option of a permanent facility just up the road should be seriously looked at. Just imagine if a fraction of that amount of money was invested in a permanent circuit, still in the Gold Coast- Brisbane corridor. Sure, the immediate Surfers Paradise area would then miss out, but others would gain. There seems to be a distinct lack of more up to date information in recent times, but with Newmans razor gangs on the case, I think we will be hearing more in the near future.

Thing to bear in mind in terms of govt funding is that it is now a VERY much cheaper event - in the days of the internationals coming in it was costing the govt over $20 mill, so $6 mill seems cheap to the govt. Whether they'll keep feeling that way remains to be seen. The govt will have KPIs they want to meet and if that's happening, the event may continue.

Permanent circuit in the area is interesting. V8s were prepared to tip money into Darlington Park themselves to get it suitable back 7 or 8 years ago but Gold Coast council put the wall up for the circuit owner & blocked that one.

Then there was that group who were going to build (allegedly) a "world class" facility around the Norwell area to run Rally Australia and circuit racing - first comment from Peter Beattie at the time was that such a facility wouldn't be permitted due to govt area zoning.

Plus of course, SouthAussie is spot on - permanent circuits generally don't pull the same level of event crowd & there are already 2 (3 if you count Morgan Park) permanent circuits in SE Qld so the govt might struggle to be convinced about the need for another.

[cptkablamo]

As the Newman government have no issues dragging a couple hundred thousand out of community outreach programs, cultural events and what not, $6million should be a huge amount. But I guess it's sport, so that doesn't count.

Problem is that with QR, Lakeside and Morgan Park, neither have decent facilities...both are a piece of tarmac on a bit of land with the cheapest sheds for the facilities...Between the three of them, they don't compare to Eastern Creek or Phillip Island.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thing to bear in mind in terms of govt funding is that it is now a VERY much cheaper event - in the days of the internationals coming in it was costing the govt over $20 mill, so $6 mill seems cheap to the govt.

$6 million isnt cheap if you aren't getting $6million back.

Spending $20 million but getting $20million of return or more is a lot better than $6million and not getting it back.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

$6 million isnt cheap if you aren't getting $6million back.

Spending $20 million but getting $20million of return or more is a lot better than $6million and not getting it back.

Very true but like I said, the govt will have KPIs they want to see achieved and if they are being achieved, all may be well - if they're not being achieved on the other hand...........

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

$6 million isnt cheap if you aren't getting $6million back.

Spending $20 million but getting $20million of return or more is a lot better than $6million and not getting it back.

but $6 million is cheap if you are getting $10 million back

I can do maths to, its quite irrelevant though, unless one of us have some relevant information to add

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

but $6 million is cheap if you are getting $10 million back

Very true. Listening to the media reports since the event has gone v8 only - I dont get the feeling this is the case.

The fact that the V8SA CEO was quoted in the press saying he "hoped" the Gold Coast would continue was another interesting indicator.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Very true. Listening to the media reports since the event has gone v8 only - I dont get the feeling this is the case.

The fact that the V8SA CEO was quoted in the press saying he "hoped" the Gold Coast would continue was another interesting indicator.

naturally the media reports also had some quality maths in them also. doubtful. the media as you know push a barrow and support what ever cause they choose to support.

I think it is well known that the v8 race is on fixed timed agreement, its no secret, So i would think it is natural for the CEO to say that, Not sure what is inetresting about it. We also know that the QLD government is cutting costs. I find it funny that you think this is an interesting indicator, It would be more interesting if he wasnt saying it!

No one is suprised by this, but the haters will hate