Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30 Apr 2018, 09:40 (Ref:3818323)   #1
TrapezeArtist
Veteran
 
TrapezeArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
England
Posts: 1,872
TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rolling Starts at Street Races

Is it time to introduce rolling starts at races like Baku and Monaco? It's a near certainty that several cars will touch/collide and then the safety car will come out. Then after a few wasted laps the race proper is started with a rolling start, minus a couple of cars, and with a couple more relegated to the back. Why not accept the reality and have a rolling start for all 20 cars in an undamaged condition?

For comparison, look at a race start in the 1960s. There is only a couple of feet of side-to-side space between the cars, only about half a car length between the rows, and yet they all manage to get away without bumping into one another. Agreed, the performance levels then were much lower, but they have about the grip of a Formula Ford and twice the power. They were not easy cars to handle.
TrapezeArtist is offline  
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 10:02 (Ref:3818327)   #2
Greem
Veteran
 
Greem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,067
Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!
What benefit would it give? You'd still have 20+ cars bowling into the first few corners close together, with the added risk of shenanigans approaching the start.

The principal difference would be that they'd get to turn 1 even more quickly.

SC restarts aren't really 'rolling starts' as such, because everyone is (or should be) line astern. Rolling starts are more often than not two by two.
Greem is offline  
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 10:13 (Ref:3818330)   #3
Moneyseeker
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,169
Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!
Keep the standing starts, being able to make a good standing start and keep out of trouble is supposed to be part of the drivers skill set. F1 has been watered down enough as it is. If anything, Baku shows what happens when the margin and penalty from errors increase. On a Tilke drome, GRO would have spun and re-joined but in Baku there was nowhere to go.
Moneyseeker is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 10:16 (Ref:3818332)   #4
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
OTOH it would give Grosjean another opportunity to bin the car.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 11:00 (Ref:3818341)   #5
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,270
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
Keep the standing starts, being able to make a good standing start and keep out of trouble is supposed to be part of the drivers skill set.
Rolling starts just mean that everyone arrives at turn 1 faster - no drop in number of accidents but takes away a good opportunity for people to make places if they can get the car launched properly.
BertMk2 is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 11:23 (Ref:3818346)   #6
TrapezeArtist
Veteran
 
TrapezeArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
England
Posts: 1,872
TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greem View Post
What benefit would it give? You'd still have 20+ cars bowling into the first few corners close together, with the added risk of shenanigans approaching the start.

The principal difference would be that they'd get to turn 1 even more quickly.

SC restarts aren't really 'rolling starts' as such, because everyone is (or should be) line astern. Rolling starts are more often than not two by two.
The empirical evidence shows that there is less damage at a SC start than normal standing start. Although in some ways I hate the idea of rolling starts, I do like the idea that we could have more healthy cars running at the end of lap 1.

Rolling starts could be line astern. After all, we've gone from 3-2-3 to 2-2 to staggered. It's just one more step.

I'm only putting the idea out there to see what people say. Personally like the idea of more car running properly, but hate the idea of yet more dumbing down.
TrapezeArtist is offline  
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 11:48 (Ref:3818353)   #7
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Well, not that there’s a direct comparison, the FIA Historic F1 championship utilises rolling starts, AND also no overtaking until a nominated turn on the first lap. All cars to remain line astern until then.

The rolling starts are mainly to reduce possible transmission damage and therefore cost, the ‘no overtaking until turn X’ rule to reduce early corner accidents.....

Would I want to see that in modern F1? No.
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 11:56 (Ref:3818355)   #8
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,143
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Having watched plenty of CART/IndyCar races over the years, I've seen plenty of first lap incidents with a rolling start on street courses, so I don't think they will solve anything.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 12:22 (Ref:3818365)   #9
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
In a start after the safety car the cars become naturally spread out due the unpredictability of when the lead driver actually make the break and goes for it. In fact this generally has a knock-on effect down the 'grid' and each following car can only react to the car in front. With a rolling start, the race starts when the lead cars cross the start/finish line so they will be generally be bunched up more closely together & still like that when they arrive at the first corner.
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 12:32 (Ref:3818368)   #10
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,470
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
In a start after the safety car the cars become naturally spread out due the unpredictability of when the lead driver actually make the break and goes for it. In fact this generally has a knock-on effect down the 'grid' and each following car can only react to the car in front. With a rolling start, the race starts when the lead cars cross the start/finish line so they will be generally be bunched up more closely together & still like that when they arrive at the first corner.
The same really does apply on a safety car re-start; racing can only recommence after they have passed the start or finish line.

I still believe that staggered grids should be scrapped, and go back to a more compact grid formation. That would stop the speed differential between those starting further back and those from the front.

It would also mean that drivers should be far more aware of the cars that are around them, and thus overcoming the "I didn't see them" excuse.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 12:41 (Ref:3818374)   #11
djinvicta
Veteran
 
djinvicta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Wales
Mojacar Southern Spain
Posts: 2,303
djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!
Quote: For comparison, look at a race start in the 1960s. There is only a couple of feet of side-to-side space between the cars, only about half a car length between the rows, and yet they all manage to get away without bumping into one another. Quote.

Difference was, if they did "bump" then, it was nearly always fatal..
djinvicta is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 12:43 (Ref:3818377)   #12
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,143
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
The same really does apply on a safety car re-start; racing can only recommence after they have passed the start or finish line.

I still believe that staggered grids should be scrapped, and go back to a more compact grid formation. That would stop the speed differential between those starting further back and those from the front.

It would also mean that drivers should be far more aware of the cars that are around them, and thus overcoming the "I didn't see them" excuse.
In CART/IndyCar, the cars are double file or side by side, on a rolling start, which does help eliminate to a certain extent, the "I didn't see them" excuse. However, the cars aren't double file on SC restarts as this tended to make things worse and quite often led to another caution; yellows breed yellows.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 15:45 (Ref:3818411)   #13
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Standing starts are always more exciting than rolling starts. Plus it’s easy for drivers not line up correctly under rolling starts
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 16:05 (Ref:3818417)   #14
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,799
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greem View Post
What benefit would it give? You'd still have 20+ cars bowling into the first few corners close together, with the added risk of shenanigans approaching the start.
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Well, not that there’s a direct comparison, the FIA Historic F1 championship utilises rolling starts, AND also no overtaking until a nominated turn on the first lap. All cars to remain line astern until then.

The rolling starts are mainly to reduce possible transmission damage and therefore cost, the ‘no overtaking until turn X’ rule to reduce early corner accidents.....

Would I want to see that in modern F1? No.
I wasn't aware of how that works, but I can imagine it would work in that scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist View Post
The empirical evidence shows that there is less damage at a SC start than normal standing start. Although in some ways I hate the idea of rolling starts, I do like the idea that we could have more healthy cars running at the end of lap 1.

Rolling starts could be line astern. After all, we've gone from 3-2-3 to 2-2 to staggered. It's just one more step.

I'm only putting the idea out there to see what people say. Personally like the idea of more car running properly, but hate the idea of yet more dumbing down.
As you say, single file would help. But... sadly given the even nature/performance of these car "while at speed", the somewhat random nature of standing starts provides some dose of excitement to what many thing are boring races. I think it would be dumbing it down too much.

My opinion is that F1 is either "a" or "the" top level in open wheel racing. Let them figure out how to navigate the first corner without it ending their race. Its part of what makes the actual race results different than just setting quick times in qualifying (and then awarding points based upon time only).

Richard
Richard C is online now  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2018, 16:23 (Ref:3818420)   #15
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,143
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Standing starts are always more exciting than rolling starts. Plus it’s easy for drivers not line up correctly under rolling starts
I find them both equally exciting and I like that there are two types of start. If it was all the same it would be a bit dull. However, I agree about drivers not lining up properly under a rolling start. The start of this year's Long Beach GP, was very scrappy and should have been waved off.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 05:01 (Ref:3819008)   #16
Purist
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 5,892
Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!
Well, there's plenty here to go through.

I suspect that the old-style grids were done away with after about 1975 due to the increasing performance, especially acceleration, of the cars. The Ford-Cosworth DFV reached a 485-hp output at about that time, which was a good 10% increase over what they were seeing just 2-3 years before. Under those conditions, the tight, sometimes 3-4-wide, rows you might see became a serious liability if a car stalled, as effective evasion became much harder with the improved acceleration.

Particularly with the Anthony Nogues corner, you're going to have about as much luck getting the grid formed up for a rolling start at Monaco as IndyCar does coming off the hairpin at Long Beach. Also, even at more open circuits, unless you have a very long run up to the line, you're going to have issues with forming the grid, because the drivers are going to enter the straight single-file, so that they don't muck up their tires right before the start by going around the outside (off-line) of the final corners.

And anyway, which tracks would count as "street circuits"? By a stricter definition, it would probably be limited to Baku, Monaco, and Singapore. Under a looser guideline, you might well include parkland circuits such as Melbourne and Montreal. If you're really being lenient, you could include Sochi and Yas Marina, which fall into the same sort of category as Valencia.

And of course, touching on earlier comments, a rolling start means you're heading into Turn 1 at a higher speed. A longer run into Turn 1 can mitigate this to an extent, but it also runs counter to what I just mentioned, that is, having enough space off the final corner for the grid to fully organize. With the most obvious exception being Baku, a number of the F1 circuits have a tendency for the line to be rather closer to the last corner than the first.

I don't think standing starts are enough of an increased hazard, assuming they are one, to warrant the change. I consider the unpredictability they bring to more than justify the continued use of the procedure.
Purist is offline  
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 06:10 (Ref:3819014)   #17
Purist
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 5,892
Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!
If I had to list the circuits where I don't think forming up the grid for a rolling start would be a particular concern, it would be as follows:
Bahrain
Baku
Red Bull Ring
Monza
Interlagos

The tracks where I see grid formation as a definite issue are these:
Melbourne
Monaco
Montreal
Paul Ricard
Silverstone
Hungaroring
Spa-Francorchamps
Singapore
Sochi

The others could present problems to varying degrees. With Catalunya and Suzuka, you have to get the field bunched back up and in two-wide formation after going through a tight, slow chicane. At Mexico City and Shanghai, you couldn't have the full field ready until after the last car has exited the final, real corner.

Anyway, clearly, all 3 street circuits, 4 of 5 street/parkland circuits, and 5 of the 7 non-permanent (by design at least) circuits are on that second list.

Finally, I suspect the tracks where the added speed of a rolling start is apt to cause additional difficulties in the first braking zone are these:
Bahrain
Baku
Monaco
Montreal
Red Bull Ring
Hockenheim
Spa-Francorchamps
Austin
Yas Marina

Sorry guys, I'm just in a mood right now to be thorough.
Purist is offline  
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 07:08 (Ref:3819022)   #18
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist View Post
If I had to list the circuits where I don't think forming up the grid for a rolling start would be a particular concern, it would be as follows:
Bahrain
Baku
Red Bull Ring
Monza
Interlagos

The tracks where I see grid formation as a definite issue are these:
Melbourne
Monaco
Montreal
Paul Ricard
Silverstone
Hungaroring
Spa-Francorchamps
Singapore
Sochi

The others could present problems to varying degrees. With Catalunya and Suzuka, you have to get the field bunched back up and in two-wide formation after going through a tight, slow chicane. At Mexico City and Shanghai, you couldn't have the full field ready until after the last car has exited the final, real corner.

Anyway, clearly, all 3 street circuits, 4 of 5 street/parkland circuits, and 5 of the 7 non-permanent (by design at least) circuits are on that second list.

Finally, I suspect the tracks where the added speed of a rolling start is apt to cause additional difficulties in the first braking zone are these:
Bahrain
Baku
Monaco
Montreal
Red Bull Ring
Hockenheim
Spa-Francorchamps
Austin
Yas Marina

Sorry guys, I'm just in a mood right now to be thorough.
Are those lists based on making a rolling start at the start/finish straight only?

Would the list change if the rolling start was made somewhere else on the track?
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me."
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 07:33 (Ref:3819030)   #19
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 4,345
Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!
To me, rolling starts are an abomination and a lessening of the skillset required to compete in circuit motor racing. I do understand that there are some situations where they are needed, such as:
Ovals - really no other way to start on them
Historic racing - to ease loads on the gear that a standing start generates
Pro/Am type races where skillsets vary so much that a standing start feels inappropriate
Some Endurance races where the start is a small part of the race and building a car to withstand a standing start compromises it for the other aspects in the race itself.

Other than that, best left alone I think. As others have said, rolling starts have all cars bunched, sometimes closer to each other than an F1 Standing start and they arrive at the first corner going faster - most likely a more risky proposition.

Lastly, to me standing starts are very much part of F1 and it would need a very, very strong argument to go away from them, which we currently do not have.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 08:42 (Ref:3819045)   #20
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
And sportscars need it, as there are too many cars for a standing start
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 09:07 (Ref:3819050)   #21
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
In a start after the safety car the cars become naturally spread out due the unpredictability of when the lead driver actually make the break and goes for it. In fact this generally has a knock-on effect down the 'grid' and each following car can only react to the car in front. With a rolling start, the race starts when the lead cars cross the start/finish line so they will be generally be bunched up more closely together & still like that when they arrive at the first corner.
Perhaps one day the driver in second spot will use his brains and hang back so any variation in speed by the first driver is taken up by the space between them and when the restart is about to happen he can accelerate first. It has worked for me in every rolling start I have been in.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 12:21 (Ref:3819083)   #22
Tourer
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 4,345
Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!Tourer is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
And sportscars need it, as there are too many cars for a standing start
Too many cars - really? How many are they starting in the sportscar races you're talking about? Used to start 55 touring cars at Bathurst with a standing start OK. I know the 'Ring 24 hours is an enormous field and there are a couple of others of that ilk (covered in my comments about endurance and pro-am fields) but I'm not sure that all sports car races have such big fields.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 12:43 (Ref:3819088)   #23
RedSquirrel
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Ireland
Posts: 303
RedSquirrel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Too many cars - really? How many are they starting in the sportscar races you're talking about? Used to start 55 touring cars at Bathurst with a standing start OK. I know the 'Ring 24 hours is an enormous field and there are a couple of others of that ilk (covered in my comments about endurance and pro-am fields) but I'm not sure that all sports car races have such big fields.
There are 37 cars at Spa this weekend. The tail end of the field will be in the chicane or just leaving it when the lights go green. You can't have a standing start in that chicane.
The Spa 24 Hours will have c.60 cars, Sebring has c.50 most years, Petit Le Mans usually has upwards of 40 cars. If we look at Super GT, the GT500s struggle to get away from pit stops without massive wheelspin. Plus Super GT does split starts to reduce the chance of carnage at the first corner due to cold tyres (no tyre warmers). So standing starts aren't really an option.
RedSquirrel is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3819096)   #24
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 11,147
Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!
Standing starts used to be exciting, now all the cars get away more or less the same due to all the "start maps" and trick diffs. When was the last time you saw a car totally fluff a start and lose 5-6 places into turn 1?
Sodemo is online now  
Quote
Old 3 May 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3819098)   #25
fieldodreams79
Veteran
 
fieldodreams79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
The Dirty South
Posts: 12,043
fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I find the starts of F1 races to be the most intriguing and exciting aspects of the entire race. Please don't change them.
fieldodreams79 is offline  
__________________
"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out
Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have."
-Mike Cooley
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trans-Ams/Rolling Starts for State Races inpitlane Australasian Touring Cars. 4 24 Dec 2005 01:13
F3 rolling starts...? superMINI National & International Single Seaters 7 17 May 2004 15:16
Rolling starts pink69 Formula One 25 25 May 2001 18:34
Rolling Starts Invader Touring Car Racing 28 5 Feb 2001 20:45


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.