2018 DTM

[loon]

If Ronnie Quintarelli turned up in his Nismo GT-R he would lap the entire DTM field !!

[S griffin]

Maybe they need to tweak the rules slightly to allow more cars in

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Gerhard says it’s unbelievable that no other manufacturers are interested, but, realistically, who is there?

Alfa Romeo?

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Opel? Would be great, but PSA are heavily committed elsewhere, and it comes back to rules stability.

Saldy so.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Alfa Romeo?

Alfa Romeo has no interest in DTM.

1. Marchionne don't spend money in motorsport, this year they pour money to Sauber to put two stickers
2. The cost of the championship is high
3. The championship is instable and has no link with the production cars or something relevant in the technology involved on the market. It's a pure motorsport championship.

The Opel is not an option for the immediately next years. The board said that only from 2021 Opel could be back in a series with an official team (if the the financial statement is positive)

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by loon

If Ronnie Quintarelli turned up in his Nismo GT-R he would lap the entire DTM field !!

It would need to a different car from the Super GT iteration.

It seems to me that the problem with “Class 1” is that the DTM and Super GT are two very different things; the former is a single-driver, sprint series for saloon-based coupés, whereas the latter is a GT series for driver pairings. The potential is there for rule commonality but it’s going to take a lot of work. DTM should freeze its rules till the end of 2021 and try to get someone else in alongside Audi and BMW, while negotiating with the SGTA for convergence in 2022.

[S griffin]

Alfa in the DTM, where have I heard that before?

[loon]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

It would need to a different car from the Super GT iteration.

It seems to me that the problem with “Class 1” is that the DTM and Super GT are two very different things; the former is a single-driver, sprint series for saloon-based coupés, whereas the latter is a GT series for driver pairings. The potential is there for rule commonality but it’s going to take a lot of work. DTM should freeze its rules till the end of 2021 and try to get someone else in alongside Audi and BMW, while negotiating with the SGTA for convergence in 2022.

Super GT is the best racing series in the world and they should wave a friendly goodbye to DTM and let them sort out their own decline

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by S griffin

DTM is now becoming what tin tops should be about, close racing. DRS should be scrapped for 2019, but at the moment it’s doing fine

It took only 15 years and Gerhard Berger to realize.

If you look at Australian Supercars and GT Masters DTM has to admit they did a very poor job.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The irony is that I think a big manufacturer which showed a sniff of interest in the DTM (Ford, Nissan, Honda) could get the rulemakers to do pretty much whatever they wanted to bring them on board. A NISMO programme with the GT-R would seem to me a no-brainer.

Yep but it shows nobody is interested.

Maybe it's better DTM disappears for a couple of years and than gets a fresh start.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Yep but it shows nobody is interested.

Maybe it's better DTM disappears for a couple of years and than gets a fresh start.

Three decent races in a row. Sure makes a change.

[Akrapovic]

I watched the race, first DTM race for years, and was a bit baffled tbh. The cars seemed designed to explode in such a way that means cleaning up takes forever. The race timer didn't stop during the red, so the race became 20 minutes but with a mandatory stop? The commentator on the English language YouTube feed had absolutely no idea what was going on. He kept telling us to ignore the cars in the lead as it wasn't the real lead battle because they hadn't stopped. Being a DTM rookie I kinda went along with it, but I was sure they had stopped. Come the end of the race he was confused and it turned out they had and turns out he'd been commentating on the wrong thing all along.

Just...weird. I don't get it. Excitement seemed to come from the race being too short to get any heat into tyres and cars sliding about. Such a weird series.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by chavez

Three decent races in a row. Sure makes a change.

It makes a change indeed but I agree with Ekstrom who claims that DTM cars are still not entertaining and exciting. Instead of monocoque and still too big downforce for touring cars and too big aero dependency, DTM can take an example of Aussie Supercars. Less wings, winglets, less downforce but more bhp instead and bodywork allowing for even more door-to-door racing. I mean, I enjoy DTM but now, as the series is on the crossroads, they need bigger changes than just switching to turbo engines and reducing downforce. On paper DTM has everything to be absolutely the most exciting touring car series in Europe (maybe together with BTCC that has slightly different philosophy) but they were too much F1-oriented. Let F1 be F1, people love Supercars for being loud, aggressive and still touring cars. No one will love DTM for the technology. Fvck the technology, nobody cares, except for F1, LMP1 and maybe FE. DTM should still remain quite high tech but not as much as it is now. Manufacturer involvement should not be as huge as it is (one again look at Supercars for example), less politics, more pure spirit of the racing. This is what DTM needs in order to survive. Maybe I side Supercars too much, but for me DTM should try and make something similar. Europe lacks such a racing.

[DS"]

It'd be a bitter irony if the plug on DTM was pulled, just as the series starts to finally provide some decent racing on the track.

The problem is indeed that the DTM cars are pure race cars that don't provide anything in terms of adaptability of technology to road cars nor are they in any way similar to cars sold in dealerships. I presume if DTM for example went full electric, then there would be a decent amount of manufacturers interest. But Gerhard Berger has already expressed his dislike of electric racing, plus there's the risk that the DTM may alienate the remaining audience they have - TV numbers have fallen drastically compared to last year.

In my opinion, Berger should try to win over more private teams to the series. Obviously the costs of running a full season need to be lowered even more - less requirements on employees, hospitality and so on. At the very least, the cost of a DTM car has to be lowered to the levels of a GT3 car, which in my opinion can be done. To me, GT3 and DTM aren't that far off from each other, at least in terms of technology and looks. Still I'm convinced that there are some GT teams in Germany and Central Europe that want to compete in a more professional enviroment than GT racing. Even though DTM has had some sort of decline over the past years, it is still a well-known marque among racing fans and even some casuals - in Germany at least. So it might be easier to convince sponsors to invest in DTM than in some GT series. Of course the DTM needs to have a safe future, which it hasn't and which was the reason for companies like BWT or Red Bull withdrawing their sponsorship from the series.

So where does that leave BMW and Audi? Berger has already talked to both about the possibility of selling their equipment to private teams, which they were open towards. So BMW and Audi may very well withdraw financial assistance to their current works teams, but may still sell cars, as well as provide some technical assistance as well as works drivers. We've had DTM with only two manufacturers before and it was really boring, but only because we really had only two teams competing against each other. But if every teams stood on their own, it'd make for a more exciting product on the track. IndyCar has gotten along very well for the last couple of years and it's only been Honda vs. Chevy for years. So if DTM wants to survive, it needs to make into an IndyCar-like direction, namely to create an enviroment that stregthens the teams itself.

[NaBUru38]

Holy FIA...

https://twitter.com/geinou/status/998182540774182918

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by DS"

It'd be a bitter irony if the plug on DTM was pulled, just as the series starts to finally provide some decent racing on the track.

The problem is indeed that the DTM cars are pure race cars that don't provide anything in terms of adaptability of technology to road cars nor are they in any way similar to cars sold in dealerships. I presume if DTM for example went full electric, then there would be a decent amount of manufacturers interest. But Gerhard Berger has already expressed his dislike of electric racing, plus there's the risk that the DTM may alienate the remaining audience they have - TV numbers have fallen drastically compared to last year.

In my opinion, Berger should try to win over more private teams to the series. Obviously the costs of running a full season need to be lowered even more - less requirements on employees, hospitality and so on. At the very least, the cost of a DTM car has to be lowered to the levels of a GT3 car, which in my opinion can be done. To me, GT3 and DTM aren't that far off from each other, at least in terms of technology and looks. Still I'm convinced that there are some GT teams in Germany and Central Europe that want to compete in a more professional enviroment than GT racing. Even though DTM has had some sort of decline over the past years, it is still a well-known marque among racing fans and even some casuals - in Germany at least. So it might be easier to convince sponsors to invest in DTM than in some GT series. Of course the DTM needs to have a safe future, which it hasn't and which was the reason for companies like BWT or Red Bull withdrawing their sponsorship from the series.

So where does that leave BMW and Audi? Berger has already talked to both about the possibility of selling their equipment to private teams, which they were open towards. So BMW and Audi may very well withdraw financial assistance to their current works teams, but may still sell cars, as well as provide some technical assistance as well as works drivers. We've had DTM with only two manufacturers before and it was really boring, but only because we really had only two teams competing against each other. But if every teams stood on their own, it'd make for a more exciting product on the track. IndyCar has gotten along very well for the last couple of years and it's only been Honda vs. Chevy for years. So if DTM wants to survive, it needs to make into an IndyCar-like direction, namely to create an enviroment that stregthens the teams itself.

I totally agree. DTM cars should be not as expensive and then I'm sure many German (and not only) teams as well as sponsors would be willing to join DTM.
The example you gave with IndyCar is also relevant, the same was with Supercars when only Holden and Ford contested. It was a fierce battle between both manufacturers (an iconic 'tribe vs tribe' battle) but the emphasis was on teams and no one cared if factory Holden Racing Team is winning or losing with customer Holden teams etc. There were no team orders, politics and so on. Such a concept of DTM would be feasible even with two manufacturers.

Holy FIA...

https://twitter.com/geinou/status/998182540774182918

It's written in such a chaotic manner that I don't understand. So is finally World Class 1 Championship going to happen or not? Will it be 'part' of DTM or not?

[Matt]

Really would like to see them run the full T1 of the oval at the Lausitzring instead of that awkward twiddly bit they do.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Matt

Really would like to see them run the full T1 of the oval at the Lausitzring instead of that awkward twiddly bit they do.

It did result is some very soft penalties on the weekend.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by chavez

It did result is some very soft penalties on the weekend.

Mortara didn't sound happy.

[FIRE]

IMO biggest problem of DTM is the huge involvement of the manufacturers.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by FIRE

IMO biggest problem of DTM is the huge involvement of the manufacturers.

Problem partly solved. They will get one less manufacturer from October.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Problem partly solved. They will get one less manufacturer from October.

And yet another may leave at the end of the year as well.

[Matt K]

https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...races-1042586/

It seems that Super GT and DTM will race together next year. One race in Japan and one in Europe. Sadly, it doesn't change anything in regard of DTM's future. I doubt that Japanese manufacturers are willing to participate in DTM because if they have almost the same cars over there, what point is in racing in Europe? It would take much more money if, say, Honda would like to race in DTM and field 6-8 cars as a factory outfit.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Matt K

It seems that Super GT and DTM will race together next year.

How many times have we read that?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Juntos

How many times have we read that?

Numerous times probably. It looks like it's now sorted out yet still it doesn't play any role in securing DTM's future.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Numerous times probably. It looks like it's now sorted out yet still it doesn't play any role in securing DTM's future.

Well, I'd suggest it does... this is a step closer to a universal class one format. We just have to see what the next step is