Kubica Renault's new test driver ??

[karimbo]

The Polish car market being as important as the Spanish one and far bigger than the one in Finland (Poland and Spain: population 40 millions, Finland only 4) Wouldn't it be better for Renault to have a Polish test driver instead of Heikki ? And after one season of test driving Kubica could well replace either an aging Fisichella or a "Ferrari-Schumacher-replacing" Alonso...

By the way NOT ONE SINGLE CAR Renault is sold in Canada, not one drop of Elf gasoline either. So tell me of what use would an old Canadian driver be to Renault...

[Kicking-back]

No.

Kubica needs a GP2 year to prove himself against stronger opposition.

Kovalianen will be more use as test driver than Kubica at this stage.

[karimbo]

What about Jenson or Kimi, how long did they stay in Formula 3000 or GP2... has Formula 3000 been good for Pizzonia, Pantano, Robbie Kerr and many others ??

[Alex K]

Robbie Kerr

[Kicking-back]

Kubica's never shown star quality though

[karimbo]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Robbie Kerr

I'm just saying that for many talented drivers time spent in junior Formulae is time wasted in junior Formulas. Nelsinho, Lewis Hamilton, Kubica, and many more could be in Formula 1 in 2006 and after a couple of races they'd be doing fine. If you waste time in promotional series like Paffett, Kerr, Lloyd, Courtney, Briscoe, and so many other drivers did, you might never get to Formula 1.

[karimbo]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Kubica's never shown star quality though

If you ever get to talk to Lewis Hamilton, ask him when he was racing karts if he remembers how Robert was doing. Or just ask him in Macao in 2004, what "happened". Robert won his very first Formula 3 race, and dominated a championship that in my opinion is more competitive than GP2: how many different drivers won races in GP2 vs how many different drivers won races in SuperRenault...

[Kicking-back]

Lots of drivers winning races could mean that there was no one really special, of course

[Alex K]

Hey karimbo, aren't you one of Polish motorsport journalists

[BootsOntheSide]

Fast Finns sell more cars than slow Poles. And to suggest that Super Renault is as strong as GP2 is frankly ridiculous - all the best young drivers were in GP2. Your facts regarding several drivers are completely wrong as well - Paffett and Kerr faded from the radar through NOT doing GP2 - Paffett because Mercedes backed him for the DTM (which has turned into a great career move), and Kerr because he couldn't afford it (even though I suspect every manufacturer in F1 sells a lot more cars in Britain than Poland, if that means anything).

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by karimbo

The Polish car market being as important as the Spanish one and far bigger than the one in Finland (Poland and Spain: population 40 millions, Finland only 4) Wouldn't it be better for Renault to have a Polish test driver instead of Heikki ? And after one season of test driving Kubica could well replace either an aging Fisichella or a "Ferrari-Schumacher-replacing" Alonso...

By the way NOT ONE SINGLE CAR Renault is sold in Canada, not one drop of Elf gasoline either. So tell me of what use would an old Canadian driver be to Renault...

Does the manufacturers teams guide their options in drivers by their national market ???

[karimbo]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Does the manufacturers teams guide their options in drivers by their national market ???

Why do you think that Montagny, Bourdais, Cochet, Lapierre, Premat, Salignon and all the others will NEVER race for Renault? Because Renault doesn't need marketing in France. But in other countries...

Canada doesn't import Renaults...

[karimbo]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Fast Finns sell more cars than slow Poles. And to suggest that Super Renault is as strong as GP2 is frankly ridiculous - all the best young drivers were in GP2. Your facts regarding several drivers are completely wrong as well - Paffett and Kerr faded from the radar through NOT doing GP2 - Paffett because Mercedes backed him for the DTM (which has turned into a great career move), and Kerr because he couldn't afford it (even though I suspect every manufacturer in F1 sells a lot more cars in Britain than Poland, if that means anything).

1) Kubica a "slow Pole"... I will not comment. Like I said, ask Hamilton about it.

2) All the best drivers are in GP2. I would say some are good but some others... Lauda, Fauzy, Artam, Monfardini, Yoshimoto... come on...

3) Some drivers faded from the radars for NOT going to GP2... THAT IS CORRECT. I beleive that Paffett or Kerr or Briscoe could have stepped up to F1 right after F3. Just like Jenson did. Would Button be where he is if he would have spent another year in Formula 3 and 3-4 years in F3000. No one would know who he is.

4) In 1999, Pizzonia raced in Brithish and European formula Renault with Manor Motorsport. At the biggining of the season Raikonnen tried to race him with another team and he could not. Kimi gave up his 1999 formula Renault season and let Pizzonia dominate the circuit. In 2000, while Pizzonia was dominating Formula 3 with Manor the same way he was dominating formula Renault a year earlier, Kimi raced and won the F. Renault championship with... Manor. In 2001, Kimi was a sensation in Formula 1 at Sauber while Pizzonia began his...F3000 career. If Pizzonia would have signed for Sauber in 2000 or 2001, instead of "gaining maturity" in F3000, his career and life would have been different. He is now 25 (a year younger than Kimi) and his career is almost over...

5) Every driver in F1 will tell that Formula one cars are easier to driver than formula 3: the electronic control of everything, the computers that help with the set up, the semi-automatic gear shifting etc... THE classic examples: compare Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve formula 3 results with those they had in Formula 1...

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by karimbo

5) Every driver in F1 will tell that Formula one cars are easier to driver than formula 3: the electronic control of everything, the computers that help with the set up, the semi-automatic gear shifting etc... THE classic examples: compare Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve formula 3 results with those they had in Formula 1...

To drive a Formula 1 car on the absolute limit, and then sustain relentless pace lap after lap, in the manner of Raikkonen or Alonso, will never be easier than driving a Formula 3 car, driver aids or not.

[chunterer]

Let's not get off point here.

I think Kubica is at least half decent, after all he was a relative front runner in euro F3 and looked the part in WSR 3.5 this year.

Please folk, let's wait and see how her performs in the R25 before we start finishing his career for him! He's as deserving of a test driver offer as much as anyone based on what he's done this year

[BootsOntheSide]

Okay, he isn't 'slow' as such, but he's certainly not as fast as Kovalainen in the short term. My point was more that a successful driver can sell cars worldwide. As for the comparison with Pizzonia and Raikkonen, I think you'll find that the ddifference between the two is that Antonio isn't as talented - he would have done better with his Williams opportunity (which came several year's later than Kimi's chance at McLaren, and after much more experience) if he was in the same league.

Not sure why you mentioned Button - there's a slight difference between racing in F1 and testing in F1. Even if Kubica gets this drive and does an excellent job, will anyone outside F1 know who he is?

Formula 1 cars are easier to keep on the road than Formula 3 cars, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean they're easier to race at the front, up against a full field of other cars (especially as they make overtaking harder and thus increase the improtance of qualifying, on tracks a rookie would scarcely know in most cases).

[Jordi]

I think Kubica deserves a chance. I don't really know if he's quicker than Kovalainen, have they driven similar cars?

(F1 shouldn't choose drivers because of their nationalities or because they need marketing in a certain country, btw)

[chunterer]

Jordi, i think Boots was saying that Kimi is a better driver than Pizzonia based on what they have done in their career, and from that point of view we can't really dispute it. I think we'd all agree with that!

Whilst i generally agree with you about the slection of drivers shouldn't be according to politics, i fear that this is pretty much the norm in F1 these days.

Boots' point re marketing is also sound as it's pretty well known that Fiat have had/wanted South American drivers in one of their cars for quite a while now.

The reason? because South America (i believe) is Fiat's biggest market so it makes sense to do this for brand association and other commericial factors, and if that driver happens to be very well known like Rubesn is and Massa may well be then it makes it count even more.

Similarly, it wasn't just Jenson's pace in his BMW test in early 2000 that got him that Williams drive - iI suspect Bee-em thought it was good marketing sense to have a young Brit driving for them to keep boosting their image to young aspirational company car drivers i would imagine?

With Kubica, there's little doubt he's quick, but even for a test drivers role there would probably have to be some commerical influecne for him to get that drive, either backing to bring to the team (if they need it?) or as has been said, marketing cars, improving the profile in Poland.

However. i'm not aware but are Renault already building or about to start building cars in Poland or another Eastern European country?

[CeeDas]

Kubica has a one-off test, sharing the car with someone else for one day at a three day test. Also driving are Montagny, Fisichella and Jose-Maria Lopez. Kovalienen will be driving at the other two tests this year, so I think this is all being blown a bit out of proportion.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by CeeDas

Kubica has a one-off test, sharing the car with someone else for one day at a three day test. Also driving are Montagny, Fisichella and Jose-Maria Lopez. Kovalienen will be driving at the other two tests this year, so I think this is all being blown a bit out of proportion.

Well yes, but i thought the point of flow of this thread was about discussing Robert's merits as a potential F1 driver/tester for Renault or any other outfit, not necessarily that he was cast iron guaranteed a 3rd drive as such...

Ooh, i'll be interested to see how Lopez gets on btw!

[karimbo]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Fast Finns sell more cars than slow Poles. And to suggest that Super Renault is as strong as GP2 is frankly ridiculous - all the best young drivers were in GP2. Your facts regarding several drivers are completely wrong as well - Paffett and Kerr faded from the radar through NOT doing GP2 - Paffett because Mercedes backed him for the DTM (which has turned into a great career move), and Kerr because he couldn't afford it (even though I suspect every manufacturer in F1 sells a lot more cars in Britain than Poland, if that means anything).

Kubica a "slow Pole"... Right...

[BootsOntheSide]

Read the rest of the thread to see what I meant. He's certainly not as fast as Kovalainen in the short term,a nd ym point was mroe that, regardless of nationality, a fast driver can help companies sell cars worldwide.