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Old 15 Sep 2019, 19:44 (Ref:3928183)   #61
johnh875
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Leaving aside Whincup's actions (I'm not sure it's too harsh to say he should be DQ'd as a repeat offender) this would have to be the worst example of a safety car interfering with a race result. It's one thing for the cars pitting to be able to put in a lot more fuel, but to gain a lap at the same time makes a joke of it.

Raises a lot of questions too, such as why can't they keep the commentary team and thus the viewers informed what is going on? Would they have asked the team whether the car was dead or still running? Given there was no real danger, why put the safety car out when they did, knowing it would not pick up the race leader?

High time they shut the pit lane under yellow, at least for a lap or two, which would also stop the issue of racing back to the pits. Can't be that hard to sort out rules to cover fuel emergencies, and at the same time avoid the American system where every SC basically runs for long enough for everyone to do a pitstop under yellow, regardless of time needed for cleanup.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 20:01 (Ref:3928189)   #62
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champcarman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchampcarman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I thought Supercars were going to start using the VSC. Would probably have saved a lot of angst if they used it on this occasion.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 22:42 (Ref:3928222)   #63
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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I thought Supercars were going to start using the VSC. Would probably have saved a lot of angst if they used it on this occasion.
From what we witnessed yesterday I have very little confidence that CAMS and Supercars could implement a VCS.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 23:48 (Ref:3928229)   #64
Trev Campbell
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Trev Campbell should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTrev Campbell should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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.
The way I saw it was at the deployment of the safety car Scott Mac (the then leader) was coming in, which meant while he was being serviced Whincup etc wouldve passed the pits while McLaughlin was in there, meaning Whincup (who had already pitted) was back in the lead on corrected order. The safety car knew who to pick up and tried. Once 888/Dane complained to Burgess and race control after Whincup took matters into his own hands is where the confusion started. In hindsight they shouldnt have waved the rest past as the order was correct with the exception of Whincup who was busy doing his own thing. A drive through and hold Whincup at pit exit until the field has passed wouldve put Jamie back on the correct lap, albiet at the rear of the field.

Give him a large fine or grid penalty for ignoring the safety car procedures next round. It's not as though he hasn't got enough laps to regain the deficit.
This is exactly correct. I don't defend race control often, but the deployment of the saftey car was correct. Whincup caused all the issues by passing the safety car when he was the leader of the race. In hindsight he should have been given an immediate penalty an Lee becoming the new leader. But whether the saftey car driver didn't notify race control that the leader had passed him and they then tried to pick up the leader who was Whincup, this screwed all the guys who had pitted early.

So what it all boils down to is if Whincup had of followed the rules/procudures instead of thinking he knows better than everyone else there would be no issue.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 00:10 (Ref:3928234)   #65
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.
The way I saw it was at the deployment of the safety car Scott Mac (the then leader) was coming in, which meant while he was being serviced Whincup etc wouldve passed the pits while McLaughlin was in there, meaning Whincup (who had already pitted) was back in the lead on corrected order. The safety car knew who to pick up and tried. Once 888/Dane complained to Burgess and race control after Whincup took matters into his own hands is where the confusion started. In hindsight they shouldnt have waved the rest past as the order was correct with the exception of Whincup who was busy doing his own thing. A drive through and hold Whincup at pit exit until the field has passed wouldve put Jamie back on the correct lap, albiet at the rear of the field.

Give him a large fine or grid penalty for ignoring the safety car procedures next round. It's not as though he hasn't got enough laps to regain the deficit.
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This is exactly correct. I don't defend race control often, but the deployment of the saftey car was correct. Whincup caused all the issues by passing the safety car when he was the leader of the race. In hindsight he should have been given an immediate penalty an Lee becoming the new leader. But whether the saftey car driver didn't notify race control that the leader had passed him and they then tried to pick up the leader who was Whincup, this screwed all the guys who had pitted early.

So what it all boils down to is if Whincup had of followed the rules/procudures instead of thinking he knows better than everyone else there would be no issue.
Yep, that's how it went down. Race Control and the SC didn't stuff up in any way with picking up the leader - Mr Whincup was the leader because the cars in front of him pitted when the SC was called, meaning that Mr Whincup passed them whilst they were in the pit lane.

The error that Race Control DID make was not trusting themselves and the information that they had at hand in a pressured situation once the leader ignored the yellow lights on the SC and drove past it. Race Control should have re-started the race and then penalised Mr Whincup, maybe even DQed him due to this being a repeat offence.

The mistake made was sending the other cars past the SC - that is what screwed up the result.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 00:43 (Ref:3928241)   #66
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Yep, that's how it went down. Race Control and the SC didn't stuff up in any way with picking up the leader - Mr Whincup was the leader because the cars in front of him pitted when the SC was called, meaning that Mr Whincup passed them whilst they were in the pit lane.

The error that Race Control DID make was not trusting themselves and the information that they had at hand in a pressurred situation once the leader ignored the yellow lights on the SC and drove past it. Race Control should have re-started the race and then penalised Mr Whincup, maybe even DQed him due to this being a repeat offence.

The mistake made was sending the other cars past the SC - that is what screwed up the result.

That's also incorrect. At the point the SC was called McLaughlin lead on track but the confusion starts as whincup, holdsworth, waters etc who had already made a stop were either slightly infront of McLaughlin on track or a lap down. McLaughlin SVG Mostert etc pull into the pits behind the others and take their stops. Whincup then approaches the SC but because he hasnt actually yet passed the pits to overtake McLaughlin he isnt the leader.


The confusion is probably somewhat multiplied by the fact that at racing pace with whincup being in front at time of the his 1st stop and due to the fact that he taken on less fuel then the SC stoppers he would have been the leader that they where looking for.


Effectively the SC had to wave the whole feild through until it picked up whincup on the 2nd lap. If they had restarted the race as it was with holdsworth in front before waving them around they would have been near enough to a lap down as McLaughlin was still the race leader.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 04:43 (Ref:3928264)   #67
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Puke still the best track in NZ.If the V8's ever go to Hampton Downs I will give up sheep.

I agree, the racing looks insanely quick from the TV Coverage. I like the track layout.


As Far as JW, why didnt he just fall behind the Safety Car until something was sorted with his team and the officials and THEN and ONLY THEN Pass the saftey car when told????

I guess in the heat of the moment he did the wrong thing again
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 06:35 (Ref:3928267)   #68
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The knee jerk reaction to re-dress the 'problem' when Triple 8 began complaining was the only issue created by officialdom. Its amazing how quick they were to 'fix' the issue when RD came calling.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 08:43 (Ref:3928277)   #69
Lukin
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Yep, that's how it went down. Race Control and the SC didn't stuff up in any way with picking up the leader - Mr Whincup was the leader because the cars in front of him pitted when the SC was called, meaning that Mr Whincup passed them whilst they were in the pit lane.

The error that Race Control DID make was not trusting themselves and the information that they had at hand in a pressured situation once the leader ignored the yellow lights on the SC and drove past it. Race Control should have re-started the race and then penalised Mr Whincup, maybe even DQed him due to this being a repeat offence.

The mistake made was sending the other cars past the SC - that is what screwed up the result.
I disagree.

My read on it was that at the time the SC was deployed onto the circuit SVG/SM were the leaders and JW/LH were a pit stop and 10s behind.

‪I don’t think there was ever an ‘incorrect order’. The SC came out and slowed the cars that had already stopped (JW,LH etc). This allowed those who hadn’t stopped (SVG,SM) to get in and out without losing position. ‬

‪Ideally JW/LH should have been waived through and beaten SVG/SM out of the pits on account of lower first stop time.‬

Once the SC slowed down JW/LH it was effectively all over for them. SVG and SM were getting a full load of fuel and track position. ‪There was nothing that could be done to alleviate the time lost by JW/LH once the field was all under control.
‬When the SC had the field under control it had JW first (due to passing the SC), SM, SVG etc and LH around 10th. That was the order as LH got held up so long.

The argument that JW passing the SC ruined it for LH etc isn’t valid, they were already screwed. They couldn’t exactly estimate the time loss for JW/LH and where SVG/SM would have rejoined based on fuel time and position the lap before the SC?‬ You can’t at that point, you would be putting them into an order that never existed and is at odds with the timing.
The only time you ever see them change the order is due a red flag (they can go back a lap) or if half the field misses the chicane (they go to the order before the corner).
I don’t see how they could sort that order properly once they had slowed down half the field while the other half was at full speed in and out of the pits.

The time lost by those guys due to the SC is huge. JW was able to ‘undo’ it by passing the SC and got a drive through (~45s timeless) and still finished within 0.5s of LH.

CAMS argue they didn’t break any procedures. And they may not have, they are entitled to deploy and slow the field (it is a safety car after all). However the decision to deploy at that exact time (picking up the cars in 10th) and then hold up the first car that arrived was terrible. And if they didn’t know who the leader was, or what was going to happen, at that point they are useless.
Given the incident, they screwed half the field for nothing really. There was no danger given the position of car 9. They should have let it run for another lap under With the SC on standby, the pack would have sorted themselves out.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 09:09 (Ref:3928280)   #70
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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They should have let it run for another lap under With the SC on standby, the pack would have sorted themselves out.
That requires a level of self critique, contrition and considered action that would be out of character.

Hopefully this will lead to a review of all safety car procedures and the introduction of minimum sector times when the safety car is deployed.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 09:18 (Ref:3928282)   #71
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My read on it was that at the time the SC was deployed onto the circuit SVG/SM were the leaders and JW/LH were a pit stop and 10s behind.

‪I don’t think there was ever an ‘incorrect order’. The SC came out and slowed the cars that had already stopped (JW,LH etc). This allowed those who hadn’t stopped (SVG,SM) to get in and out without losing position.
This is correct.

Holdsworth and everyone else who didn't illegally overtake the safety car never passed McLaughlin (who was leading when the SC came out) on track.

Lee was in 11th and technically almost a lap behind when he got waved past the SC on lap 16, which was a full 1.5 laps after he and Whincup had been picked up by it on lap 14.

Last edited by simonracer; 16 Sep 2019 at 09:26.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 09:56 (Ref:3928284)   #72
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Jamie is in trouble for the after race interview. In the TV coverage he looked not to bad as Crompton approached to interview him. the opening comments from Crompton looked to raise Jamie's ire. There was a flash of anger in his eyes at the comments. I saw it and said out loud, he didn't like that. Then came the angry vent. Poke an angry bear and you get a reaction. Maybe he'd been better to just ask the question, what happened Jamie.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 10:01 (Ref:3928286)   #73
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billybanana should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbillybanana should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The sooner a VSC comes the better. I know it's probably happened many times over the years but nowadays they seem so quick to deploy the SC, it just turns the whole race into a lottery and screws over anyone that has pitted early. Racing decided by luck and not pace or strategy is just farcical.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 10:28 (Ref:3928290)   #74
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introduction of minimum sector times when the safety car is deployed.
This times a billion!


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Old 16 Sep 2019, 10:34 (Ref:3928292)   #75
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Jamie is in trouble for the after race interview. In the TV coverage he looked not to bad as Crompton approached to interview him. the opening comments from Crompton looked to raise Jamie's ire. There was a flash of anger in his eyes at the comments. I saw it and said out loud, he didn't like that. Then came the angry vent. Poke an angry bear and you get a reaction. Maybe he'd been better to just ask the question, what happened Jamie.
Any good journo knows that if you ask the right question, you'll get your headline.





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