What is wrong with Redbull?

[djinvicta]

Yes, I like that idea!

[djinvicta]

Maybe - now that Horner is married to Geri - he can focus more on the problems at Red Bull?

Think she's going to be as expensive as an engine, with more revs..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Yes, I like that idea!

Obviously it's a take on your original idea and I think it has a lot of potential, though I wonder how long it would take before anyone noticed?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Maybe - now that Horner is married to Geri - he can focus more on the problems at Red Bull?

Think she's going to be as expensive as an engine, with more revs..

Hopefully, she can spice things up a bit and get RBR back on track.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

They should paint one car from each team in the others colors, just in case.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Autosport's Dieter Rencken, says Red Bull's treat to quit should be taken seriously.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...807.1435108645

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Autosport's Dieter Rencken, says Red Bull's treat to quit should be taken seriously.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...807.1435108645

I have seen that article and there is a lot of logic to it. I cannot see RB getting back to the top in the next 2 or 3 years unless Renault engines improve by a massive leap. RB don't seem to have the long term commitment like Ferrari, Williams or McLaren had in their lean years.

[Richard C]

All you have to do is look at RBR's performance in the constructor championship since they started to tell the story of why the are acting as they are...

2005 7th
2006 7th
2007 5th
2008 7th
2009 2nd
2010 1st
2011 1st
2012 1st
2013 1st
2014 2nd
2015 4th (so far)

Other than 2008 minor blip (still scored more points than the previous year), the have improve year after year until 2014. What they have learned from this is that if you invest, you improve and eventually will win. Now as we know that is not true. They are upset that (minus Newey) they are roughly the same (RBR not Renault) as those years that they dominated. They might be getting the short end of the stick right now, but it could have easily been someone else in their position and they could have been on top like Mercedes is today. They have unrealistic expectations given how the rules are setup (which they walked into with open eyes).

If they are unhappy, then step up with a plan that has consensus and then bring that to FIA or whoever. Mercedes says they are open to changes. I would think RBR and Renault would be working with them and others to create a plan vs. public moaning. The public really can do nothing but either agree with them, or disagree, but we (public) can't fix this. I get the impression they want someone else to do the hard work of fixing this.

Richard

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Hopefully, she can spice things up a bit and get RBR back on track.

It needs something Dr Marko is not the answer...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It needs something Dr Marko is not the answer...

Dr. Pepper?

[Mike Harte]

Autosport and others are reporting that Aston Martin may be in discussions with Red Bull about a possible investment in the team. This would be allied with a potential supply of Mercedes PSUs as early as 2016, which would allow RBR to find a build a case for breaking their contract with Renault.

Two of the directors now at Aston Martin were believed to be responsible for the tie up of RBR to Infiniti whilst they worked for Nissan, so they already have a good relationship with the team at Brackley.

From Renault's point of view, and possibly Red Bull's, this could be fortuitous as it would give them the possibility of either withdrawing from F1 entirely or buying one of the existing teams. From Red Bull's side, they could consider selling off Toro Rosso to Renault which means that they then wouldn't need to go down the Lotus route.

Of course, this could well be pure speculation on the part of some of the media who needed to fill space, and nothing will come of it. Or is it?

[wolfhound]

It seems more likely that Renault will go the Lotus route but it is just pure speculation at the moment.
I would have thought that Aston Martin would not have the resources for a significant F1 program in terms of cost given that it is a niche car manufacturer (Although we recently have had a Russian car maker that sold very few cars in F1).
I wonder how this will effect Aston's GT program?

[billybanana]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I would have thought that Aston Martin would not have the resources for a significant F1 program in terms of cost..

The way I read that is Aston Martin's position would be no different to that of Infiniti now. Just a sponsorship exercise and with their connections are able to facilitate a Mercedes engine deal. It's not like Aston have to build anything themselves, so they're not committing to major F1 program per se.

[p-matt]

I cannot imagine for a second that Merc would want to give their engine to Red Bull.

If it does happen, would Toro Rosso get Merc engines too?

[wolfhound]

Cold water is flowing from Mercedes on any possible deal with RB.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/me...ed-bull-tie-up

[chillibowl]

the RB brand/tv channel/magazine/social media/x-games/space flight promoting/self aggrandizing merc engine deal would reach several*several million more eyes than an merc running their own f1 team ever could.

for better or worse RB as a brand is bigger now to todays generation than Ferrari/magnum p.i. ever was for us as kids.

we really need to stop looking at RB's 30 plus years involved with every cool sport on the planet as something to be so easily dismissed.

if the merc board doesnt like this idea then as an old guy im selling my shares in them tomorrow.

[GHOGH]

BMW are doing electric cars now, I think a BMW power unit in a Red Bull F1 car would be a good marketing fit.

There has been a bit written on the possible Audi (VW) tie up with Red Bull for a F1 entry.

[GTRMagic]

As long as RBR are playing 'Pop Goes The Renault' each race, 4th is the best they can get.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by billybanana

The way I read that is Aston Martin's position would be no different to that of Infiniti now. Just a sponsorship exercise and with their connections are able to facilitate a Mercedes engine deal. It's not like Aston have to build anything themselves, so they're not committing to major F1 program per se.

According to this, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119860, Toto Wolff hasn't ruled it out and Aston Martin would be a brand partner.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

According to this, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119860, Toto Wolff hasn't ruled it out and Aston Martin would be a brand partner.

Mercedes would be quite content to be the only engine supplier, with only Ferrari outside the camp I reckon!

How to make a profit out of F1!

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the RB brand/tv channel/magazine/social media/x-games/space flight promoting/self aggrandizing merc engine deal would reach several*several million more eyes than an merc running their own f1 team ever could.

for better or worse RB as a brand is bigger now to todays generation than Ferrari/magnum p.i. ever was for us as kids.

we really need to stop looking at RB's 30 plus years involved with every cool sport on the planet as something to be so easily dismissed.

if the merc board doesnt like this idea then as an old guy im selling my shares in them tomorrow.

The problem is that RBR's wins are always more Red Bull than the engine supplier to the public eye and RBR makes sure that's the way things go. Renault benefitted little from supplying their engines to RBR all this time, especially when they chose to advertise Infiniti instead of themselves. The uneducated probably don't even know RBR uses Renault engines.

Originally Posted by wnut

Mercedes would be quite content to be the only engine supplier, with only Ferrari outside the camp I reckon!

How to make a profit out of F1!

Not unheard of in F1, actually. There was a time in the 70s when most of the grid used the DFV and only Ferrari developed their own engines.

The problem, of course, is that Mercedes is also a constructor in today's F1, and now that they're winning they wouldn't be happy with a customer team beating them.

[GTRMagic]

What is stopping Renault from purchasing Tyrrell.. oops MercedesGP... and switching to the Renault engine...

Mercedes becomes an engine supplier with 2 WDCs & 2 WCCs under its belt in its own name. Well Tyrrell's name, scratched out & replaced with BAR, Honda, BrawnGP & now Mercedes...

Mercedes gets to spend less supplying 5 teams than they do owning one and supplying 4 of them (including their own), while Red Bull can pay for all the aero work and magic that they keep delivering...

Mr Hamilton to Red Bull Mercedes, Mr Rosberg to Scuderia Toro Rosso Mercedes?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Pole2Win

The problem is that RBR's wins are always more Red Bull than the engine supplier to the public eye and RBR makes sure that's the way things go. Renault benefitted little from supplying their engines to RBR all this time, especially when they chose to advertise Infiniti instead of themselves. The uneducated probably don't even know RBR uses Renault engines.

but surely they benefited (from and advertising perspective) far more from their successful partnership with RB then they did with say Williams back in the late 90's.

did they benefit as much as they did when they won in 05 & 06 when they ran the store themselves? probably not.

if they want more branding exposure then they should put both feet back in the water but as a supplier they will always take a back seat to brand they are supplying. thats just the nature of supply deals no?

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but surely they benefited (from and advertising perspective) far more from their successful partnership with RB then they did with say Williams back in the late 90's.

did they benefit as much as they did when they won in 05 & 06 when they ran the store themselves? probably not.

if they want more branding exposure then they should put both feet back in the water but as a supplier they will always take a back seat to brand they are supplying. thats just the nature of supply deals no?

Disagree. From 92-97 the only year they didn't win was 94 (four with Williams and one with Benetton), and we all know how controversial that was. Williams had a far shorter reach as an F1 constructor back then than RBR has today, because Red Bull is involved in a myriad of different sports and makes a product that is better known by the general public than what Williams does (hybrid technology).

I also remember Renault making quite a big deal of their F1 involvement back then, with a few specials like the Espace F1 built with the sole purpose of increasing brand awareness and capitalizing on its F1 success.

[Adam43]

FWIW I think the phrase Williams-Renault back then was more common than Red Bull-Renault is now.
Red Bull is the dominant name for the current one with nothing else getting a look in. More equal back then and, I think, we associate Renault with those cars as much as we do Rothmans or Canon.