[Team] Scuderia Toro Rosso: Now with HONDA

[insane014]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

the guys at str (minardi) have a proven track record of really good chasis and great professionalism in working with tight budgets. honda, we all know the track record they have, and a friendlier, more free, less dicatorship-like relationship compared to the one they had with mclaren, could result in some indeed great steps in the right direcion.

the problem are ther drivers. gasly is not half bad, but wont be enough to carry the team, and hartley, im not sure what he is doing in f1. all in all it feels like a very promising package, of which the true potential could sadly be never seen.

Driver lineup is more of a concern than the actual engine. What's going on for them is that other two teams will suck in the driver department as well, both Sauber and Williams. There is a good chance TR will not finish dead last this year but forget about sticking it to McLaren. That's coming next year in Red Bull.

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by insane014

Driver lineup is more of a concern than the actual engine. What's going on for them is that other two teams will suck in the driver department as well, both Sauber and Williams. There is a good chance TR will not finish dead last this year but forget about sticking it to McLaren. That's coming next year in Red Bull.

i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually

The only reason Stroll did so well on ocassion last season was when the car suited the circuit! Nice lad but whoever is in the other car will hammer him.

Gasly and Hartley are right for STR. Both need to perform and are hungry. No experienced driver would go there to put up with Honda uncertainty.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually

Stroll and Hartley were team mates at the 2016 Daytona 24 hours.
How did their times compare against one another?

[TzeiTzei]

STR with a Renault PU has been a solid midfield team. Next year McLaren is likely to jump into the top 10, and Renault (the team) will no doubt continue their progress. So the top 10 could be filled with Merc, Ferrari, RB, McLaren and Renault. Not much room for smaller privateers to score points. On top of that, STR's direct competitors will all be powered by 2018 Mercedes or Ferrari PUs. Honda need to make big improvements to get close enough. Add a bit underwhelming driver lineup to the mix, and it could be their worst season for years.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Add a bit underwhelming driver lineup to the mix, and it could be their worst season for years.

I think this is interesting - who are the next drivers up in the Red Bull scheme? I don't think Gasly or Hartley will be promoted to the senior team: Gasly isn't good enough. Hartley is too old and got the drive because presumably the conveyor belt of Red Bull drivers was empty, Hartley was available and they had his phone number.

I assume that's why Red Bull have kept hold of Sainz - if Ricciardo leaves the senior team neither of the current STR drivers looks up to the job of driving in the senior team and pushing Max.

[S griffin]

I think they did well. Kyvat had blown his chance, while Gasly deserves a chance and Hartley will hopefully be a good benchmark for him

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think they did well. Kyvat had blown his chance, while Gasly deserves a chance and Hartley will hopefully be a good benchmark for him

Kvyat had certainly blown it - but the other two are questionable:

There did seem some reluctance to put Gasly in (he'd been tested before - if he was "the next Max" then he'd have started the season in the car rather than Kvyat).

Hartley was brought back from the dead - they'd looked at him in the past and decided he wasn't up to it. Presumably once they'd dropped Gasly into one seat they then didn't have anyone on the conveyor belt with the credentials to put in the other seat. So out comes the list of 'rejects' and hey presto Hartley is in the car (presumably Buemi was another option). I'm not saying Hartley is a bad driver - he just looks to be a stop gap solution.

[S griffin]

I think Gasly’s problem was the same with most young drivers, not enough seats in F1

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think Gasly’s problem was the same with most young drivers, not enough seats in F1

Yes, most likely.

If there was 30 odd seats available he would have come straight in at the start of the season somewhere.

Young drivers hardly get the chance unless the big teams/schemes put them in somewhere these days. 25 years ago there were more seats available for a driver to come in and get noticed.

You can't do that without serious sponsorship.

People have been going on about Bob the Pole not getting a Williams with 9-10 million compared to Sirotkin's alleged 18 mill.

Hang on but this ain't new. Remember when Kobayashi dropped out of F1 4 years ago because his rumoured 11 mill wasn't enough to buy a drive?!!

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by wnut

Stroll and Hartley were team mates at the 2016 Daytona 24 hours.
How did their times compare against one another?

i have no idea, always struggle to find a source that post laptimes but also the name of the current driver, usually they just go by the team. how were their laptimes then?

[BSchneiderFan]

Gasly is good but not game-changing. Hartley, given a second chance (rare in F1), might surprise.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

i have no idea, always struggle to find a source that post laptimes but also the name of the current driver, usually they just go by the team. how were their laptimes then?

That is the frustration that I have found too, no individual driver's times.
One of the reasons I don't follow WEC.

This weekend at Daytona

Lance Stroll
Daniel Juncadella
Robin Frijns
Felix Rosenqvist

are all in one car. WE have never had a better chance to compare them.

WEC needs to take an average of the qualifying times of all the drivers in a car to get a grid slot.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

i have no idea, always struggle to find a source that post laptimes but also the name of the current driver, usually they just go by the team. how were their laptimes then?

I can’t view it on my iPad to make sure it’s what you want, but look at the race CSV file here...

http://www.imsatiming.com/results/20...a%2024%20Hour/

I think it has lap and sector timing data for each car including who is in the car. Match that to weather data, etc and you can do some good data analysis.

I will say I found this article (a bit off topic regarding TR/Honda) which to me negatively impacts my opinion of Stroll.

https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news...norris-973722/

Basically it sound like he treated his Daytona 24 ride as a fun day with the boys. Even if so, it seems a disservice to the team and his codrivers. If you participate... you race to win. I wonder if the data analysis shows him not as quick as his codrivers? To be honest, given Hartleys proto experience, he should be faster than Stroll. However... the Daytona cars are somewhat dinosaurs compared to what Hartley would be used to. So it might be a wash.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

That is the frustration that I have found too, no individual driver's times.
One of the reasons I don't follow WEC.

This weekend at Daytona

Lance Stroll
Daniel Juncadella
Robin Frijns
Felix Rosenqvist

are all in one car. WE have never had a better chance to compare them.

WEC needs to take an average of the qualifying times of all the drivers in a car to get a grid slot.

Might find 2018 data here...

http://results.imsa.com/

Richard

[wnut]

Looking at the above

Quali was Wurz with 2:08.639 (Wet?)

13 fastest laps Hartley with fastest on lap 716 at 1:40.1
14 th fastest lap Stroll on lap 670 at 1:40.6
17 th fastest lap Stroll on lap 665 at 1:40.6 (don't know how they were split)

71 st fastest lap Priaux on lap 539 at 1:41.1
84 th fastest lap Wurz on lap 574 at 1:41.2

In summary it looks like they were all driving to a delta of about 1:41 with traffic hampering from time to time. Last two stints where Hartley and Stroll seem to have been given a lower delta.
Timing does not seem to provide much info, on balance Hartley generally ran the fastest laps and Stroll was clearly not embarrassed in this company.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

That is the frustration that I have found too, no individual driver's times.
One of the reasons I don't follow WEC.

This weekend at Daytona

Lance Stroll
Daniel Juncadella
Robin Frijns
Felix Rosenqvist

are all in one car. WE have never had a better chance to compare them.

WEC needs to take an average of the qualifying times of all the drivers in a car to get a grid slot.

Well, IMSA and WEC are two completely separate things. IMSA doesn't take average qualifying times, so Daytona won't.

Not necessarily a good weekend to compare drivers either. For the Euro teams, half the test is for understanding the Continental tyres. So they'll have been running different setups throughout.

[VIVA GT]

Back to Toro Rosso HONDA, I've been pondering about the engine situation. Honda have already said that they may start the season with (what is basically) last years engine (OK, Power Unit) meaning that it must be fairly interchangeable with the 'newer' one.
I'm just wondering if, for comparison purposes they will rune one (reliable) specification in one car, and the supposedly more powerful (but less reliable) in the other car? That way, Toro Rosso can gain some chassis mileage whilst Honda can expose the latest engine to the stresses of racing?

[S griffin]

Well the Honda engine was admittedly was getting more reliable towards the end of last season, so maybe they are using it while they make sure the new one is reliable enough

[F1Guy]

Well Brendon Hartley will now be a tenth slower than he used to be. Next step is a kid, and then he'll be two tenths slower.

Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen and Ricciardo still off that list - thankfully.

[F1Guy]

Not a good start to the 2018 campaign for STR/Honda. They have fired their head of aero, at a very critical time. Have to wonder if it had anything to do with the Honda engine fitment to the chassis/aero package.


https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2018...at-toro-rosso/

[S griffin]

Well the question is who have they got to take his place?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well the question is who have they got to take his place?

From the blog:

The word is that Gilhome will be replaced in his role by his deputy Ben Mallock, who has been with the team since 2012, having joined from Mercedes. He was a Red Bull aerodynamicist for four years before moving to Brawn GP early in 2009.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Not a good start to the 2018 campaign for STR/Honda. They have fired their head of aero, at a very critical time. Have to wonder if it had anything to do with the Honda engine fitment to the chassis/aero package.


https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2018...at-toro-rosso/

Probably had the effrontery to tell Gunther how bad the Honda engine was to package compared to the Renault engine, probably the cooling requirements.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

Probably had the effrontery to tell Gunther how bad the Honda engine was to package compared to the Renault engine, probably the cooling requirements.

Not wishing to be pedantic but I think you might be confusing Team principals.
Franz Tost is the top man at Toro Rosso.
Gunther (Steiner) is team boss at Haas F1.