End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by Casper

This amuses me, what qualification do you have to call the cars junk?

Self taught junk spotter....


Junk is a harsh word, but reality is consumers have very little interest in what's sitting in a Holden showroom at the moment.
Bar the Colarado and even that gets pants by Hilux/Ranger and the cheap as chips Triton. Everything else is either uninspiring, or another brand has a better mouse trap.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[bluesport]

Triple 8 to depart supercars then?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Triple 8 to depart supercars then?

You would imagine that Mr Dane wouldnt have too much trouble rustling up another manufacturer... how about going to Ford and showing the 888 record in the series and levering the factory Ford funding from DJRTP and Tickford?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You would imagine that Mr Dane wouldnt have too much trouble rustling up another manufacturer... how about going to Ford and showing the 888 record in the series and levering the factory Ford funding from DJRTP and Tickford?

The existing Ford teams had enough trouble getting any Ford funding so I can't see them splurging on Triple 8, especially after they separated on less than amicable terms in the not so distant past.

[Forda]

Hopefully Mr Dane will be on a bended knee when Ford politely tell him no.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Forda

Hopefully Mr Dane will be on a bended knee when Ford politely tell him no.

Is it going to be case of Ford being the last marque standing when they turn the lights out?

GT4 here we come???

[Umai Naa]

GT4 won't be the answer.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Self taught junk spotter....


Junk is a harsh word, but reality is consumers have very little interest in what's sitting in a Holden showroom at the moment.

They had very little interest in what wore a Holden badge prior to the shutting of domestic manufacture either. The proof of that is no more domestic made Holdens.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The banning of diesel in many European countries will also shape that conversation.

The Koreans and Chinese have trialled many paths, including a relatively long standing technology in LPG. LPG was a staple for taxi fleets here for 30+ years, and as they switched to hybrids, the fuel source got replaced.. I was in a cab the other day that was Hybrid/Electric/Petrol/LPG.. a Camry.. where even though the fuel use from petrol/LPG is much smaller than the relatively guzzling Falcons of not so long ago, the price differential on the fuel, the new tech on the fuel delivery/injection, and how much cheaper conversion is now (sub $3000 from a Direct OEM-supported Centre Of Excellence) makes a compelling case to relook at the technology.

Other markets in the world are re-embracing LPG, including the US, where massive work in underway by the likes of Caterpillar and Cummins to develop clean Mid size truck & bus engines, and stationary power generation engines, for world markets.

Diesel is dying... what are we going to replace it with?

Diesels in trucks, that is easy on local or main linehaul routes such as the East Coast or mid west highways, Adelaide to Melbourne etc. I think it will be full electric with the occassional length of highway with overhead gantry that the trucks run under and "refuel" without stopping. Remote heavy haul work in this country and others such as Africa or even the more remote areas of any country is going to be diesel and a remote chance of Hydrogen getting the gig but the jury is still out on that one. Toyota, Hino et al are already onto the local light delivery side of things and the first ones can't be that far off.

Bosch are on record as saying they can clean up the light car diesel even more and we may have seen the first of that in the initial WLTP round of emission testing. That testing has certainly slimmed down the car model range world wide due to the requirement of every variation needing certification. Looking forward the diesel is most probably realistically dead in light vehicles for most markets. I doubt the Chinese would let you sell a diesel car in their market for any amount of money.

People in general in Oz have a very poor understanding of what is going to happen in the next few years and what has already happened especially in China. I learnt the other day that China has 325,000 electric buses and more being added every day to totally electrify their fleet, how many has Australia got?

All the critics say they love their IC vehicle and I do also but I have never seen anyone drive an electric car and not rave about it and want to buy one. Chris Harris was one of those until he drove a Tesla and absolutely raved about it.

As far as I am aware the US never embraced LPG in the manner that Australia did nor did many other countries for cars.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Bosch are on record as saying they can clean up the light car diesel even more and we may have seen the first of that in the initial WLTP round of emission testing. That testing has certainly slimmed down the car model range world wide due to the requirement of every variation needing certification. Looking forward the diesel is most probably realistically dead in light vehicles for most markets. I doubt the Chinese would let you sell a diesel car in their market for any amount of money.

Kinda amusing seeing that Bosch were behind everyone's dirty diesels in the first place.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

GT4 won't be the answer.

The first question that never seems to get asked or answered is does the category want to be manufacturer dependent or not?

Until that is answered I don't see how Supercars can consider moving to any set of regulations.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by chavez

The first question that never seems to get asked or answered is does the category want to be manufacturer dependent or not?

Until that is answered I don't see how Supercars can consider moving to any set of regulations.

It will be interesting to see what happens as class racing seems to be unfashionable these days. A domestic series based on cars sold here would seem to be a very hard road to go down now that the dust has settled on manufacturing in this country. Maybe SC will just whither and die over the next few years but that seems unlikely given the money wrapped up in it and Foxtel will be properly P'd off if that happened. Honestly I can't see where it can go but maybe others might have ideas on that as there is simply no obvious path such as they have/had.

[GreenMachine]

Well, they have a couple of options already, with GT3/4 and SF5000.

The 'Mustang' SC will be the real litmus test - how the Falcon fans transfer (or not). It is 'still' a Ford, but the Camaro is not a 'Holden', that will be a bigger ask, not impossible if the Holden fans want to latch on to something that is not a Ford.

Interesting times.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

They had very little interest in what wore a Holden badge prior to the shutting of domestic manufacture either.

"How hard can it be" to produce cars with the reputation of Toyota?

If only Holden and GMC and Chevrolet and Buick and Pontiac and Saturn and Opel and Vauxhall and Cadillac had made world leading 4WDs, had made world leading utilities, had made flawless luxury cars for America's elite, etc over an extended period they to would be in Toyota's position (albeit substituting luxury cars for America's elite instead of luxury cars for Japan's elite).

Unfortunately, one may argue Holden and General Motors (and Ford and Dodge) were only interested in short term profits, not in building their long term reputation. Here: Scotty Kilmer makes the argument of American auto makers putting short-term profit before long-term reputation... Meanwhile, Kilmer gets stuck into GM for their job cuts...

[Terry S]

I see that in vehicle sales for January 2019 the Holden Commodore sold only 403 units for the whole month. That's right ONLY 403.....

This begs two questions:
How long will GM support racing with such lousy sales?

Involvement in racing no longer appears to promote sales?

For info the top selling vehicle in January was the Toyota HiLux with 3,951 units......

[Umai Naa]

Astra and Colorado are carrying the brand.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Terry S

I see that in vehicle sales for January 2019 the Holden Commodore sold only 403 units for the whole month. That's right ONLY 403.....

This begs two questions:
How long will GM support racing with such lousy sales?

Involvement in racing no longer appears to promote sales?

For info the top selling vehicle in January was the Toyota HiLux with 3,951 units......

HiLux isn't what it used to be, they're made in Thailand now, Isuzu is the way to go these days.

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by bluesport

HiLux isn't what it used to be, they're made in Thailand now, Isuzu is the way to go these days.

My 2000 Hilux was Thai built, so nothing new.

The Dmax/Mux has built a reputation for reliability since their release 6 years ago. I purchased an LSU Dmax based on that, 8 months ago. Back to back driving of the Ranger and Hilux the Isuzu falls well short sadly.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

My 2000 Hilux was Thai built, so nothing new.

The Dmax/Mux has built a reputation for reliability since their release 6 years ago. I purchased an LSU Dmax based on that, 8 months ago. Back to back driving of the Ranger and Hilux the Isuzu falls well short sadly.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

My mates HiLux needed new discs after 2 years (at his expense), Ranger/BT50 have well known auto transmission failures..........it doesn't matter how good they are on the road if they are not going.

"To finish first, first you have to finish!"

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by bluesport

My mates HiLux needed new discs after 2 years (at his expense), Ranger/BT50 have well known auto transmission failures..........it doesn't matter how good they are on the road if they are not going.

"To finish first, first you have to finish!"

At least the autos are slightly cheaper to replace than an engine that's kicked a leg. The lucky owners that escape engine or auto dramas just get ongoing electrical issues....

The Hilux seems okayish other than recent DPF dramas, which is generally short trip related. It's just the ridiculous price tag and up until a month ago. A crap warranty length.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Terry S

I see that in vehicle sales for January 2019 the Holden Commodore sold only 403 units for the whole month. That's right ONLY 403.....

I reckon that is the sum total of Altima sales, and at least Holden has other stuff to sell!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Well, they have a couple of options already, with GT3/4 and SF5000.

The 'Mustang' SC will be the real litmus test - how the Falcon fans transfer (or not). It is 'still' a Ford, but the Camaro is not a 'Holden', that will be a bigger ask, not impossible if the Holden fans want to latch on to something that is not a Ford.

Interesting times.

I am never adamant about many things but I am damned sure SF5000 is not going to get the gig. One huge factor in that is the cars are not big enough to support a lot of sponsors signs and if there is another sure thing about motor racing it is a business that needs a bill board to display sponsors who support it.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bluesport

HiLux isn't what it used to be, they're made in Thailand now, Isuzu is the way to go these days.

The RHD Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Holden Colorado, Nissan Navara, Isuzu D-Max and Mitsubishi Triton are all made in Thailand, and have been for some time now. Basically all of the RHD pickups are. I believe the new RHD Mercedes pickup is/or will also be made in Thailand.

I drive past thousands of them on the backs of trucks headed to the port in Chonburi when I'm over there.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by dsg

The RHD Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Holden Colorado, Nissan Navara, Isuzu D-Max and Mitsubishi Triton are all made in Thailand, and have been for some time now. Basically all of the RHD pickups are. I believe the new RHD Mercedes pickup is/or will also be made in Thailand.

I drive past thousands of them on the backs of trucks headed to the port in Chonburi when I'm over there.

I was lucky then, I must have one of the last Japanese built MU-X.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

I am never adamant about many things but I am damned sure SF5000 is not going to get the gig. One huge factor in that is the cars are not big enough to support a lot of sponsors signs

They are about the same size as Formula One or Indycar cars, which do just fine at commanding prices for stickers on cars!

SF5000, offering lower costs than Supercars and great performance, has potential as a rival premier category...