And you thought the Commodore's debut was in Australia

[racer69]

I found this website on the history of the ETC, and when looking through the cars that competed in the ETC in 1970 and 1971, came across some cars called Opel Commodores. I know that the original VB Commodore chassis came from Opel and that Commodores where sold and raced inEurope, but i thought that was after the Commodore was released here and after it was raced here. Obviously not.
Interesting that one of the drivers was Prince Leopold Von Bayen, who raced the JPS BMW 635csi at Bathurst in 84 and the Calder WTCC round in an M3 in '87.

Here is the website:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/in004021/

1970 Opel Commodore:

[racer69]

1971 Opel Commodore:

[racer69]

And here is an Opel Monza from the 1982 ETC, doesn't that front end look familiar. In my 1983 ETC review, a car looking exactly like this is referred to as an Opel Commodore, and driven by Tony Lanfranchi and John Cleland at the 1983 Tourist Trophy at Silverstone. Team owner was Gerry Marshall.

Also a 2 door Opel Monza like this was used by Irish rally driver Austin McHale in British Championship tarmac rallies in Group A trim in the late 80s.

Here is the 1982 Opel Monza:

[Marcos Skaife]

Just for the young fellas that might not have known!!

[TSR]

Thanks racer69 , I have being people for years about the German Commodore, and they never belived me.

[Pro Racer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore

well the Commodores come from opel with Holden doing a few design differences up until the VE:

VB/C/H - Opel Rekord E:


VK/L - Opel Senator A:


VN/P/R/S - Opel Senator B/Opel Omega A:
Omega A

Senator B

VT/X/Y/Z - Opel Omega B:


IMO i like the Commodore designs of these particular cars.

[bestfit]

You can't link images from your hard drive.

[Pro Racer]

fixed although i apologise if the mods can fix i run out of time to fix the rest into the smaller version.

[Another Bob]

I was in the US in the mid 80's and we toured a GM factory in Detroit, and yes their models were basically front wheel versions of our 90's rear wheel drive Commodores.

The same in the UK where I spent most of the 90's, the Vauxhall's looked like identical but narrower versions of the Commodores, and the Ford's likewise. all of them were around 5 years ahead of Australian designs.

It happens all the time, the 380 is an old US model Gallant, the new Commodore looks remarkably like recent Cadallacs, most Kias, Hyundias etc are designs, engineering and patterns purchased from the US & Europe that the likes of Opel, Ford, GM have finished with.

But what always makes me laugh is when the likes of Holden try and tell you they spent a Billion Dollars developing the new model!

[Pro Racer]

and 6 years doing that.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by TSR

Thanks racer69 , I have being people for years about the German Commodore, and they never belived me.

Do ya mates know anything about the pommy Grenada (XD Falcon)?

[Pro Racer]

Grenada Mark 2, Cortina rims XD is slightly larger ditto the Opel/Commodore.

[Another Bob]

Once again the Granada was in shape a couple of years ahead of the Falcons, but narrower, front wheel drive, and tiny engines. I always felt that the Granadas were Opel original designs, but I couldn't confirm that, just a gut feel.

It use to be great to get back home to Oz every year or two and jump into a Falcon or Commodore and feel a 4 litre 6 cylinder powering you and driving from the rear wheels, instead of draging you from the front steer wheels.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Another Bob

Once again the Granada was in shape a couple of years ahead of the Falcons, but narrower, front wheel drive, and tiny engines. I always felt that the Granadas were Opel original designs, but I couldn't confirm that, just a gut feel.

It use to be great to get back home to Oz every year or two and jump into a Falcon or Commodore and feel a 4 litre 6 cylinder powering you and driving from the rear wheels, instead of draging you from the front steer wheels.

Granadas were never front-wheel drive- always rwd, usually with either a 2-litre 4-pot, or a V6- either the 3-litre 'Essex' unit in Mk1s, or the 2.3/2.8 'Cologne' V6 in Mk2s. The car pictured is a Mk2, in production 1977-85.

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally Posted by KA

Granadas were never front-wheel drive- always rwd, usually with either a 2-litre 4-pot, or a V6- either the 3-litre 'Essex' unit in Mk1s, or the 2.3/2.8 'Cologne' V6 in Mk2s. The car pictured is a Mk2, in production 1977-85.

The 'XD' style Granada (MKII) was also developed roughly at the same time as the XD and was released around mid '77, XD was May '79. The similarities between the two begin and end with external styling. The EA looked similar to the MKIII Granada but differed greatly as the Granada was a hatch.

VB-VL Commodores were essentially parts bin specials with Holden/Nissan running gear. VN onwards still used old chassis with euro styling. VT was next big changed with again Euro pumped out styling.

[johnh875]

The difference is the Falcon only took some styling cues from the Granada. Look at the slight curves to the roofline and rear pillar of the Granada, and its side window line is a lot higher than the XD-XF Falcon. The Falcon has been entirely separate from US cars for years (and never had any similarity with European cars bar the above headlights & indicators).

Also, to clarify or expand on Pro Racer's post "a few design differences" on the VN and VT generation Commodores included lengthening and widening the entire car. The VN also carried over the previous model floorpan with the new wider body dropped on it, which explains the ludicrously narrow front track width of the VN.

Another Bob you seem to have the wrong end of the stick in a few areas. I seriously doubt the Granada would have anything to do with GM, and for many years the Korean manufacturers have been developing their own cars - albeit with a few exceptions and with some outside help in cases.

Something to consider when disparaging the development of the VE is that when developing the VB Commodore, the engineers experienced structural failure of the German prototypes and the Opel engineers literally didn't believe the loading data that was being fed back to them - Aussie conditions!

Edit: was writing the above when Conrod Kieron posted.

[Conrod Kieron]

All correct John, the first Commodores tested here bent in the middle so had to be strengthened for Aussie conditions. They also suffered from cracked floorpans up to about VK. At the time, I had a Commodore wagon that was recalled due to this.

[Raglanparade]

the whole engine bay of the commodores had to be redesigned too..

they kept breaking engine mounts when they put a bigger engine in it.

[Notso Swift]

I think only the very naive thought the Commodore was any thing other than a stolen design, but then there are thous who think V8Supercars are the best touring car championship ever!

The first unique design was the VE, now that Holden has been appointed the World wide centre of development for GM RWD platforms

[Pro Racer]

well arguably Holden have stolen certain 'looks' for the VE, there are a few similarities in there but it's still a Holden design.

[Backagain]

You should also have a look at the Daewoo Prince and Prince Royal, full bodied Commodores with mindblowing 4 cyl. 1500cc engines, there are some great commercials on youtube

[Pro Racer]

well there is a land speed record breaker.

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally Posted by Raglanparade

the whole engine bay of the commodores had to be redesigned too..

they kept breaking engine mounts when they put a bigger engine in it.

What was done to the engine bay?
Possibly stronger engine mounts, the Holden blue was nothing to write home about power wise. Maybe the 253/308 required a beefed up crossmember?

[Raglanparade]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

What was done to the engine bay?
Possibly stronger engine mounts, the Holden blue was nothing to write home about power wise. Maybe the 253/308 required a beefed up crossmember?

From what i beleive, and correct me if i am wrong (i remember reading this a long time ago) that the Opel Commodore only had say 4 engine mounts, and when they tested it in Australia, they kept breaking...

So, they had to redesign the engine bay to have 6 engine mounts? or something like that.

I will try and find the evidence but for the moment its just in mind.

[Conrod Kieron]

The Commodore only had 3 engine mounts, left, right and rear if i'm not mistaken.
The Opel was also available with a straight 6 if memory serves.

Brock also slotted a V8 into the Monza (2 door Commodore), which I think had the IRS - nice looking car at the time.