Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 Nov 2004, 03:23 (Ref:1144412)   #1
Beatcha
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Australia
Posts: 176
Beatcha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Are V8 Supercars the future?

I have heard a few whispers around the traps that imply a new Touring Car Formula might be looked at for Australia. I have heard that some factions want more Manufacturers involved in a premier Touring Car class. I am led to believe that some talks have already been held with a ruling body and talk of reviving the ATCC. Just wondering if anyone can shed more light on this.
Beatcha is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 03:43 (Ref:1144419)   #2
pete55
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
sunshine coast Qld
Posts: 6,387
pete55 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The ATCC was being mooted for the GTP class early last year. Seeing Procar is no more i'm not sure anything else has been done about it.
pete55 is offline  
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it.
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 04:58 (Ref:1144449)   #3
KE30MAN
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 492
KE30MAN should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
ATCC

Personally I would like to see the ATCC return to its halcyon days. Different classes, manfacturers and configurations all racing on permanent circuits.

I like the Supercars but it does get a little bit too samey after a while.
KE30MAN is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 08:03 (Ref:1144503)   #4
monaroCountry
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location:
sydney
Posts: 273
monaroCountry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Different manufacturers gets a little bit too confusing and difficult to run. I think the current system is just fine. Many australians see ford and holden as Australian, unlike mitsu and toyota. V8 isnt declining, its growing, theres no need to change it.
monaroCountry is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 08:07 (Ref:1144508)   #5
Chucky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Australia
Port Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,767
Chucky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that V8SC has peaked. These things go in cycles, give it another 5 or 6 years and something else will be on the way up.
Chucky is offline  
__________________
"...full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing...."
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 08:20 (Ref:1144517)   #6
FFOracing
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 16
FFOracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I truly beleive that people will tire very quickly of the current formula.

Ther are two main problems:

1. Cars a too alike and bear no resemblence to road going cars. They should race what can be purchased off a showroom floor with minor modifications, namely safety.

2. The stewards are ruining too many good races with over zealous safety car deployoments and unfair penalties. Penalties should be handed out after each race after sufficient evidence can be collected. Don't ruin a race.

REMEMBER: Motorsport is ENTERTAINMENT. Take away the crashes, spills and thrills and you will slowly loose fans as they become bored. SOmething I am becomming.

Also, encourage drivers, team members to speak their minds rather than fining them. It adds to the entertainment and actually helps promote V8SC as the media love to run with a good fight.
FFOracing is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 08:29 (Ref:1144519)   #7
cavvy
Veteran
 
cavvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Melbourne Victoria
Posts: 3,530
cavvy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by monaroCountry
Different manufacturers gets a little bit too confusing and difficult to run.

Maaate, check out the Grand Am GTO-R.

I respect your opinion but disagree.

Example is the 55 car grid at Bathurst, half full! Brock/Grice/Moffat/Harves/Johnson/Bowe racing sedans on the world stage; Bob Jane racing a Mark2 Jag in the UK in the 60s & setting fastest lap.

Murph Ambrose etc will not pick up the drives overseas they should because of our formula - I love the V8s but we can do better!!
cavvy is online now  
__________________
more torque than a climate change conference
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 10:24 (Ref:1144601)   #8
Mattracer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
Mattracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
But maybe the "overseas" want to come here?

Seems that many of the OS drivers find the under-tyred V8s irresistable and enjoy the challenge.
Mattracer is offline  
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine

Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 10:38 (Ref:1144612)   #9
Gaz170
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Australia
Gold Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,506
Gaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
All formulas reach their end eventually, though I can't see the V8's going the ways of the dinosours in the immediate future.
10 years time is anyone's guess.
Gaz170 is offline  
__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 10:46 (Ref:1144617)   #10
jaytor
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 163
jaytor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
NASCAR has worked fore years in the US, what's different about Australia, the population?

Last edited by jaytor; 4 Nov 2004 at 10:47.
jaytor is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 10:58 (Ref:1144630)   #11
Mattracer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
Mattracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Each series, Nascar, IRL, V8 Supercar, F1- has a signature or prestige race or races, the jewel in the crown which usually commands the attention of the once-a-year spectator, either live or on TV. Daytona, Indy 500, Bathurst, Monaco. The rest depends on the grass-roots popluarity which drives all other promotion and the role of the media to each market. The us and Europe have vast populations, so the coverage, you would think would be successful enough to generate interest far and wide. In Australia, V8 Supercar has to battle cricket, horse racing and several codes of footaball to make headway in the print and electronic media. Big ask.
Mattracer is offline  
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine

Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 11:03 (Ref:1144637)   #12
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
NASCAR has changed remarkebly regulation wise over the years. It is only in the last 20 years for instance that the emphasis has gone away on the production models having anything to do with the racing cars.

Mattracer - if there was going to be an international influx of drivers, it would have happened by now. There have been talk and rumours and so on, but it hasn't happened.

It needs to start from scratch, both regulation wise and how it is being run.
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 12:01 (Ref:1144665)   #13
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Whole heartedly agree. A multiple manufacterer class championship is just what Australia needs for the ATCC. The diversity and new interest this would bring would be awesome.

It takes me back to the days of BMW, Nissan, Holden, Ford, Volvo, Toyota all out there having ago.

Maybe with new regulations, could we get a new promoter aswell.
D.R.T. is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 12:24 (Ref:1144679)   #14
alfacors
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location:
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,810
alfacors should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridalfacors should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Australian Production Car Association has been formed recently.....showroom vehicles with minimal modifications, multiple brands, good racing.... 2005 is looking good for them.
alfacors is offline  
__________________
Two Oh Two Point Six Seven Oh One!!
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 13:06 (Ref:1144713)   #15
Bigguy
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 472
Bigguy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by monaroCountry
Different manufacturers gets a little bit too confusing and difficult to run. I think the current system is just fine. Many australians see ford and holden as Australian, unlike mitsu and toyota. V8 isnt declining, its growing, theres no need to change it.
You are clearly too young to know that Ford took YEARS to overcome the import tag when they introduced the Falcon in the 60s, more than 10 years after the Holden became an "Australian" car. (Hmmmph, a friend on my family, Walter Pett, was brought out from GM Detroit to design the FX/FJ interior, and GMH was crawling with Americans designing other major bits...)

This issue about Toyota and Mitsubishi being "furriners" is just the same thing. Getting them involved in Supercars would be a good way to overcome the bias. Surely it is good for the country to have FOUR strong local manufacturers?

I reckon we should think more of the big picture, and not swallow the Ford/GM line, which clearly shows that they feel threatened by the possibility of the market being opened up.
Bigguy is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 17:23 (Ref:1144898)   #16
StuiE
Veteran
 
StuiE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location:
Perth, WA
Posts: 2,405
StuiE should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by FFOracing
I truly beleive that people will tire very quickly of the current formula.

Ther are two main problems:

1. Cars a too alike and bear no resemblence to road going cars. They should race what can be purchased off a showroom floor with minor modifications, namely safety.

2. The stewards are ruining too many good races with over zealous safety car deployoments and unfair penalties. Penalties should be handed out after each race after sufficient evidence can be collected. Don't ruin a race.

REMEMBER: Motorsport is ENTERTAINMENT. Take away the crashes, spills and thrills and you will slowly loose fans as they become bored. SOmething I am becomming.

Also, encourage drivers, team members to speak their minds rather than fining them. It adds to the entertainment and actually helps promote V8SC as the media love to run with a good fight.
I agree with everything in this post, good stuff.

Fred Gibson said in an interveiw earlier this year:" You've got to remember, it's for the good of the sport. V8s were what the people wanted, and to me it was just another chellenge. But I rekon we've got about five years at most before something has to change.

Can you Imagine 4.4L, four-valve overhead-cam V8 screaming at 8500 rpm? Toyota's got one, Nissan, BMW and Mercedes too. I think it would be awesome!"

SOunds good to me....but Ford and Holden would have to be involved somehow I would think, for the public to like it.
StuiE is offline  
__________________
Stu

"I think we broke something.......Traction" -Carl Edwards 19/8/06 MIS

05 - Peter Brock
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 17:35 (Ref:1144920)   #17
monaroCountry
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location:
sydney
Posts: 273
monaroCountry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
You are clearly too young to know that Ford took YEARS to overcome the import tag when they introduced the Falcon in the 60s, more than 10 years after the Holden became an "Australian" car. (Hmmmph, a friend on my family, Walter Pett, was brought out from GM Detroit to design the FX/FJ interior, and GMH was crawling with Americans designing other major bits...)
In not young, but am gerring pretty foggy upstairs . The point is that both are NOW regarded as more australian than mitsu and toyota.

Theres been many people here that thinks a multiple (more than two) manufacturer would be better. This I disagree, the current formula is great and has proven itself. Look at procar and nations cup, on paper it looked great but it had very little support base (again cars not identifyable). I loved NC and wished that it survived, but you have to admit that there were some serious flaws.

The V8's are original and does have some grat racing, great drivers and multiple showcase events.
monaroCountry is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Nov 2004, 20:17 (Ref:1145062)   #18
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
I do not follow V8SC (or better: I am not able to watch the championship , but was lucky to see some season reviews at the end of last year ).

I would say the current championship is great and needs no change. More manufacturers would be great, BUT this means the development costs are higher for each single car on the grid (if the gridsize will not grow).

In Europe we had the European Touring Car Championship (ETCC) last couple of years. This championship is using the Super2000 rules, which means a normal road car prepared for racing (sort of Group N) with 2L engine. The S2000 rules are also used in the Swedish, German, Danish and Asian touring car championships. In British BTCC S2000 cars are allowed to take part (2 factory Seats this year).

Next year this championship will be replaced by the World Touring Car Championship (WTCC) and there will be factory teams from BMW, Alfa Romeo, Seat, Chevrolet and Brilliance (Chinese manufacturer). And maybe in the near future factory teams from Honda, Peugeot and Ford.

So if V8SC collapses S2000 is in my opinion the way to go. If S2000 is used world wide there's (relative) a big market, so developments costs are lower for each single car. In example Ford Europe, Ford Asia and Ford Australia can use the same car and don't need to develop a car for themselve.

Last edited by FIRE; 4 Nov 2004 at 20:18.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 08:42 (Ref:1145357)   #19
marcus
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Australia
Posts: 12,053
marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!
"1. Cars a too alike and bear no resemblence to road going cars. They should race what can be purchased off a showroom floor with minor modifications, namely safety."


this I dont agree with.

I see lots and lots of cars each day that look very similar to the v8 supercars ?
marcus is offline  
__________________
In Loving memory of Peter Brock
I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me
GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!!
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 09:22 (Ref:1145380)   #20
Mattracer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
Mattracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Marcus,

I think you might need to look into different and er, more practical floor coverings for the kitchen.
Mattracer is offline  
__________________
Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine

Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 10:15 (Ref:1145416)   #21
bartman71
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
launceston tas
Posts: 520
bartman71 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigguy
You are clearly too young to know that Ford took YEARS to overcome the import tag when they introduced the Falcon in the 60s, more than 10 years after the Holden became an "Australian" car. (Hmmmph, a friend on my family, Walter Pett, was brought out from GM Detroit to design the FX/FJ interior, and GMH was crawling with Americans designing other major bits...)

This issue about Toyota and Mitsubishi being "furriners" is just the same thing. Getting them involved in Supercars would be a good way to overcome the bias. Surely it is good for the country to have FOUR strong local manufacturers?

I reckon we should think more of the big picture, and not swallow the Ford/GM line, which clearly shows that they feel threatened by the possibility of the market being opened up.
don't forget Toyota are the largest sell brand as well
bartman71 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 11:01 (Ref:1145441)   #22
Robert Ryan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 2,624
Robert Ryan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I cannot seeing it changing . It is building on an extablished formula like any other Sport. "We need different cars to make it exciting" furphy was used by PROCAR. It has been rapidly growing over the last couple of years and the basic concept is supported by the bulk of the fans. The dissenters, who mainly inhabit motorsport forum message boards, can go and put their money where their mouths are and start their own"Dream" Touring Car series. easier said than done, just ask Ross Palmer and Bob Jane.
Robert Ryan is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 11:43 (Ref:1145463)   #23
Monaro
Racer
 
Monaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Australia
Bathurst
Posts: 308
Monaro should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by gtr69


Can you Imagine 4.4L, four-valve overhead-cam V8 screaming at 8500 rpm? Toyota's got one, Nissan, BMW and Mercedes too. I think it would be awesome!"
I have one with 2 super-charges on top.Sounds sweet.
Monaro is offline  
__________________
Proper race cars don't have mud guards
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2004, 23:24 (Ref:1145879)   #24
Venom XR
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Australia
Posts: 330
Venom XR should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by bartman71
don't forget Toyota are the largest sell brand as well
Due to the fact they sell a lot of commerical vehicles.
Venom XR is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Nov 2004, 01:01 (Ref:1145899)   #25
pete55
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
sunshine coast Qld
Posts: 6,387
pete55 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ford and Holden are also now selling a fair few commercial vehicles as well. Both of their ute models are selling well for a start.
pete55 is offline  
__________________
Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Arnie maybe a future US President... but he cant take Supercars off the air (merged) retro Australasian Touring Cars. 36 18 Nov 2004 10:22
Where can you buy old V8 Supercars? Ben Culverhouse Australasian Touring Cars. 26 17 May 2003 15:08
Future Tourer Future Crash Test Australasian Touring Cars. 13 17 Jul 2002 23:01
V8 Supercars. robk1982 Touring Car Racing 2 24 Jul 2000 12:21


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.