Will the recession cut back your racing next season?

[simon drabble]

In view of the general conversations on the recession I thought it would be interesting to find out whiilst we are still in the post Goodwood/Spa/Donington orgy of racing honeymoon what people feel about their racing next season.
If I had done a full season this year I would have definately voted for less racing but given I had my first race in August my season was never going to be busy!

[terence]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

In view of the general conversations on the recession I thought it would be interesting to find out whiilst we are still in the post Goodwood/Spa/Donington orgy of racing honeymoon what people feel about their racing next season.
If I had done a full season this year I would have definately voted for less racing but given I had my first race in August my season was never going to be busy!

Someone else talking us into one! we're not officially in one yet.I feel sorry for all of those who are short selling,bet they will have a really crap weekend!
Still,theres alway Monday/Tuesday to look forward to.

[simon drabble]

if the country lasts the weekend...... ! You haven't had to deal with Icelandic banks all week!

[HRSTR5]

City Boy, albeit insurance (and not AIG) - yes of course my racing will be hit next year, just come off a 5 year fixed mortgage rate, expect my employer to be reducing bonuses and my share allocation won't vest in full as it's linked to our performance in excess of LIBOR. Even if I got 100% of the share allocation, they're currently worth 60% of what they were when allocated to me.

I can't honestly believe anyone thinks we're NOT in recession ...

I think there will be but a tiny minority of fortunate people who aren't going to be reducing their spending.

Any cash I can get hold of, I'll be trying to keep (as opposed to spending), and will then be on the lookout for 'distressed' sale bargains, I guess the apocryphal 'Goodwood TT' car is still likely to stay out of reach, but I might just end up with something to get me into the Fordwater Trophy in 2 years time. So I might be spending, but more on capital items and less on entry fees, maintenance and preparation etc.

At least the fuel price is going down ...

[terence]

Thank god for that,I had to put with a miserable old git who has/had money with them!

[In response to Simons post]

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Someone else talking us into one! we're not officially in one yet.I feel sorry for all of those who are short selling,bet they will have a really crap weekend!
Still,theres alway Monday/Tuesday to look forward to.

What's happening Monday/Tuesday?

And if things remain the same, I expect to be out at the usual five/six events that I can find time for.

And yes, there is a global recession, it just doesn't meet the criteria set by the officials, but if people aren't buying things and there's no need for lots of oil, then I'd say that's a recession.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by HRSTR5

City Boy, albeit insurance (and not AIG) - yes of course my racing will be hit next year, just come off a 5 year fixed mortgage rate, expect my employer to be reducing bonuses and my share allocation won't vest in full as it's linked to our performance in excess of LIBOR. Even if I got 100% of the share allocation, they're currently worth 60% of what they were when allocated to me.

I can't honestly believe anyone thinks we're NOT in recession ...

I think there will be but a tiny minority of fortunate people who aren't going to be reducing their spending.

Any cash I can get hold of, I'll be trying to keep (as opposed to spending), and will then be on the lookout for 'distressed' sale bargains, I guess the apocryphal 'Goodwood TT' car is still likely to stay out of reach, but I might just end up with something to get me into the Fordwater Trophy in 2 years time. So I might be spending, but more on capital items and less on entry fees, maintenance and preparation etc.

At least the fuel price is going down ...

You must have been living on high bonuses then for the past few years. I have never set my lifestyle according to what I may be given as an extra on top of my salary, which has been nothing for the past 12 years BTW. I always based what I could afford for living on my basic wage and when I was given a bonus it was just that, a bonus.

So next year my racing will be the same as this, as and when I can afford it or even feel like it.

As for the doom mongerers who say we are in recession, would they come and tell my boss please as my workload has nearly doubled this week, with new customers, and I may need a little lie down to get over it.

[simon drabble]

The Dow is down another 3%in first 10 minutes of trading today, FTSE off 9% today if you are not effected directly then your pension will be.....

Is your boss a pawnbroker?! And your boss is rushed off yoru feet but you get no bonus... you work for Scrooge!!!

[HRSTR5]

Eric,

As I said, I'm in insurance, so never got THOSE bonuses in any case. My adequate, but not excessive, wage just covers the mortgage, eating, clothes commuting, road car and 'cheaper' holidays - motorracing, expensive holidays, and savings etc. have to come out of bonuses.

If there's a bad hurricane season, an earthquake or an oil refinery explosion, then I probably get nothing ....

I suspect that there are more of us doing it this way, than there are on the real mega-bucks ... but then again I'm only playing in the lower leagues - HSCC Historic Roadsports, and I fear at that level there could be a significant reduction in grids next year, judging by my own situation and what my competitors are actually telling me.

I suppose I could stop saving altogether - it hasn't done me much good after all ....

James

[morninggents]

Those with the obscene bonuses who buy big for a couple of seasons then go and play at something else will no doubt be hit ...... and who, apart from them, will be sorry about that!!

As a retired pensioner with a small amount of investment income I will do the same as usual, (i.e. what I can afford) unless the shortsellers wipe out all my meagre investments.

[john ruston]

You are a Pawnbroker?

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by john ruston

You are a Pawnbroker?

great minds....!!!!! Actually incredibly my wife's shops are doing well - up on last year in the case of the original one which I cannopt begin to fathom out

[john ruston]

Spend whilst you can,thats why cars are being sold this week.

[rogerwills]

Just on the wires - Berlusconi says idea to suspend world's markets being discussed.....

This thing is not over yet and is nothing we've ever seen before. Unless you were around in the 20s.

There was a great piece this morning from one of the brokers here in Moscow calculating the losses of the Russian oligarchs at $240bn. And that was before today!

[Peter Mallett]

The pensions thing is quite interesting. I've decided not to increase my contributions but will continue on the basis that it will come back again in the medium term. Instead my only debt is the house and that is relatively small so I aim to clear that this coming year. But that of course is not good for businesses because they need my (and others) interest payments to keep things flowing.

But currently I'm paid in Dollars (have been for six or so years), so I've just had a big pay rise (hope it lasts).

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by HRSTR5

Eric,

As I said, I'm in insurance, so never got THOSE bonuses in any case. My adequate, but not excessive, wage just covers the mortgage, eating, clothes commuting, road car and 'cheaper' holidays - motorracing, expensive holidays, and savings etc. have to come out of bonuses.

If there's a bad hurricane season, an earthquake or an oil refinery explosion, then I probably get nothing ....

I suspect that there are more of us doing it this way, than there are on the real mega-bucks ... but then again I'm only playing in the lower leagues - HSCC Historic Roadsports, and I fear at that level there could be a significant reduction in grids next year, judging by my own situation and what my competitors are actually telling me.

I suppose I could stop saving altogether - it hasn't done me much good after all ....

James

I'm Tim BTW
Fair do's, my average wage covers living, racing and helping keep my daughter at uni. I don't go on holidays, 4 days in Spa last month was this year's holiday, my road car is quite old as are my two Land Rovers and I'm not even playing proper historic racing. But that's my situation and I expect those of you that are in banking and insurance are feeling the pinch more than the likes of me. The only time I will notice is if I lose my job or health.

Originally Posted by simon drabble

The Dow is down another 3%in first 10 minutes of trading today, FTSE off 9% today if you are not effected directly then your pension will be.....

Is your boss a pawnbroker?! And your boss is rushed off yoru feet but you get no bonus... you work for Scrooge!!!

Simon, as I posted elsewhere, my private pension was worth **** all before all this so yes, it will be worth less than **** all but then I took bad advice and entrusted my money with gamblers who have been proven to be not so good at their jobs. Luckily I joined the company scheme which is a final salary one so providing they don't try and con us out of it I should be reasonably OK. OH yes, my shares are affected but they were always a gamble and I never invested more than I wasn't afraid to lose.

Don't we all work for Scrooge? Yes I'm suddenly rushed off my feet, but last week I was worried because I wasn't and as for bonus, like I said I haven't had one for 12 years, I don't get overtime either and due to the job I do, a bonus isn't strictly legal anyway.

As for the long term, the stock market always has it's downs, I remember the 70s with bankers committing suicide and the stock market falling so low it needed to be dragged out of the Thames.

[Peter Mallett]

True Tim, but these days we have even less industry in the UK than the seventies so at that time, when the strikes hit home, it was immediate. Nowadays we all rely to a greater or marginally lesser extent on the markets, money makes money, not industry these days. That means we are all exposed to the losses where in the 70's we weren't.

[Al Weyman]

Well as far as I am concerned it all depends who comes through the door and that they keep coming through, if they don't I won't be racing but concerntrating on surviving, no big comfortable organisation for me to lean back on I'm afraid I am a master of my own destiny. BTW can any of you answer this, I have pension that I could take out now if I wanted its not huge about 18k, would they renage on that now all this is happened or will it still be as per the last statement? Its with the Pru.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

True Tim, but these days we have even less industry in the UK than the seventies so at that time, when the strikes hit home, it was immediate. Nowadays we all rely to a greater or marginally lesser extent on the markets, money makes money, not industry these days. That means we are all exposed to the losses where in the 70's we weren't.

Peter, I was thinking along those lines the other day. We used to have massive manufacturing, coal and steel industires, to name a few, to fall back on. Now they are all gone and once the finance industry is dead as we are now just a nation of warehouse keepers what will keep that afloat?

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Well as far as I am concerned it all depends who comes through the door and that they keep coming through, if they don't I won't be racing but concerntrating on surviving, no big comfortable organisation for me to lean back on I'm afraid I am a master of my own destiny. BTW can any of you answer this, I have pension that I could take out now if I wanted its not huge about 18k, would they renage on that now all this is happened or will it still be as per the last statement? Its with the Pru.

whilst not qualified to give you professional advice etc.......... it will be lower

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

BTW can any of you answer this, I have pension that I could take out now if I wanted its not huge about 18k, would they renage on that now all this is happened or will it still be as per the last statement? Its with the Pru.

I'm no expert but I would expect it to be worth what it is valued at on the day of surrender, not your lat statement.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Those with the obscene bonuses who buy big for a couple of seasons then go and play at something else will no doubt be hit ...... and who, apart from them, will be sorry about that!!

As a retired pensioner with a small amount of investment income I will do the same as usual, (i.e. what I can afford) unless the shortsellers wipe out all my meagre investments.

as a remarkably unsuccessful city boy who has spent more money on my racing than my results suggest and certainly more than I should have I will be gutted if I cant afford to do it next season!

[SZRacer]

Interesting discussion, and much overdue!

The events of the last couple of weeks have probably affected every single person on this BBS, whether indirectly or directly. I suspect the REALLY wealthy people (you know, the type who sold their business 5 years ago, and have been living off the interest on the interest on the interest) will still be out to play, with artics, Winnebagos etc. in full effect.

But, for anyone else (and that means most of us, I guess?), our hobby cannnot be viewed as anything other than a very expensive luxury, and there must be a few people for whom, painful or not, it is the 'first to go'.

From my own point of view (speaking candidly), i had an extremely well-paid job as a consultant, for four years, until I set up a business with my wife 5 years ago. I've been living on the same salary (more or less) ever since, and in real terms am no worse off. However, my salary wouldn't even begin to cover my racing, and for that reason it has been funded by the good savings i managed to put away when times were good. Unfortunately for me, I've now reached the point where I don't want to dip into those savings any further (Yes, I had mixed feelings about the cut in interest rates), as it was put aside for my son's education etc.

I now have a dilemma which maybe others can identify with. I have a race car (which has quadrupled in value since i bought it), and is now certainly in the 'fairly valuable' category. I could sell it, put away a fair chunk of money, pay off all my loans, buy something worth a quarter of the value, and probably have nearly as much fun racing. But, my car was (and still is) one of my 'dream' cars, they're not exactly common, and long-term, if I hang on to it, will probably continue to appreciate. By which point, had I sold it, i probably could not afford it again!

As far as my next season goes, then, I'm by necessity going to limit the number of foreign jaunts I do (1 or at a push 2), do more 'club' type events (yes, generally shorter races, but £190 versus £550!), and probably do a maximum of 8 race meetings next year (I did 14 last year!). I'll still probably race in the same series, but not abroad to the same extent (I also have a 2-year old son, and as soppy as it sounds, I miss him when I'm away for 5 days at a time).

Phew!!

J

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I'm no expert but I would expect it to be worth what it is valued at on the day of surrender, not your lat statement.

I was told I could cash it in a month ago, I will phone them Monday and see what the score is. I have been putting money in that for years if I ever get hold of the Freddie Mac or Fanny May I am gonna give em right smack in the gob. Glad I cashed me other far bigger one in a few months back.

[Al Weyman]

OK what about the charges for entries. Now its no good clubs and track owners doing the usual inflation plus rise year in and year out as this just aint gonna cut it in 2009 and its no good track owners holding the threat of 'I can sell off for housing' over us as no bugger is buying housing so they are just going to have to be sensible or the whole thing will collapse. Speaking around the paddock there are people contemplating not competing next year and this year was bad enough, clubs and track owners will really need to pull something out the fire now.