So, you never visit Vintage Sports Car Club meetings?

[JimW]

TimD said: . . .but there has to be a point where the people who are sufficiently committed to have gone out and bought a car, gained a licence, and paid their subs have to be given value for money too.

Tim
I could not agree more, but I think you must realise that this "duty" may well be fighting against the wish to attract more spectators.

I don't say that both wishes can be satisfied at once and indeed I suspect that they can't. Hence people may have to make a choice which course of action they pursue.

I do argue that the disdain expressed by some people for the Donington "experiment" of last year will help neither approach.

Regards

Jim

[John Turner]

Originally posted by eclectic
Thanks for all your feedback, I have already had an email from one of the Committee Members of the VSCC saying that your opinions were very apposite and appropriate at present, so, please keep the suggestions flowing!

Great topic, Eclectic. As you know, I make it to Silverstone every Spring but rarely go to others as my interest in motor racing extends well beyond VSCC events. One thing that might attract both more entrants and spectators is to allow closed cars. I believe that most events restricts entrants to open Sports or touring cars as Tim D says but it does allow a lot of Post Vintage Thoroughbreds so why can't that include closed cars? There were some wonderful closed cars (Precursors to the GT cars of the 50's and 60's) built before the war, on, amongst others, Alfa, Bugatti and Delage chassis. What about all those lovely 'Aero' coupe bodies on MGs, Rileys, Talbots etc. We rarely get to see any of these but they were definitely quality sports cars.

[HiRich]

There's nothing here to disagree with really (except perhaps that I think the occasional handicap is quite good, especially when the slowest Morgans are exiting Barn before the quick ones have left the grid!).

Good (better) spiel from the commentators would really help. Surely every driver could rattle off a one-page briefing sheet for them? And the administrator could write a short briefing highlighting 'new' cars, people to watch out for.
Similarly, the VSCC do make a stab at some commentary in the programme. But why not have a 2-page spread for each race: Entrants list on the right, description on the left? A little information will go a long way.

[RAP]

I agree with HiRich's comments on both commentary and programme notes. The commentators seem to know little outside pre war VSCC eg one meeting they spent a long time "wondering" who Ted Williams (Cooper Monaco) was ! They seem to talk more about the cars they know personally rather than the ones that are new/interesting. As HiRich says, understanding who/what you are seeing helps a lot. Also, I have no problem with a couple of handicaps (although it would be nice if the commentators tolds us the handicaps) as they get out cars that probably wouldn't appear for scratch races only.

[John Turner]

Absolutely right about the commentaries. Some of the commentators ('they don't build them like they used to, old boy!' brigade) can be quite condescending about what they see as 'moderns' even when referring to nearly 50 year old cars like 250Fs and Lister Jags! However, I don't have a problem with handicap races because it encourages cars out that we wouldn't otherwise see and that is surely partly what the VSCC meetings are all about.

[TimD]

Thought I'd bring this one back from the vaults for the benefit of new readers...

[Andrew Kitson]

good idea tim

[eclectic]

Thanks!

[BugEyed]

Oh dear, here I go again .....

I think that it is fair to say that the two VSCC events that draw the largest audiences are Prescott and Mallory. The people that go to these events are mainly members, and a number of people never see any of the competition (maybe with the exception of the Edwardian race) but spend their time socialising and car spotting in the carpark or the paddock.

When I restarted going to VSCC events in the early '80s (I had a break when Dad's hobby switched to aircraft photography in the '70's and being under the age of 10 I went with my parents as I enjoyed sharing their hobbies) I remember that the Vintage carpark at Silverstone was awesome, and we used to "miss" a number of races to look around it and the paddock. Last year when we marshalled at all three days of the Silverstone VSCC days (two of which were the joint VSCC/HSCC meet) we could hardly find any Pre-War cars to park with.

My question is why are we running VSCC Race meetings? Are they:[list=1][*]For the benefit of the majority of VSCC members?[*]For the members who wish to compete at the events?[*]To attract new members who wish to spectate at race meetings?[*]To spread the name of the VSCC to a wider audience?[/list=1]

The current approach is moving away from option 1. The majority of members appear to either not wish to go to some venues or to see certain types of racing - they are failing to attend if the "Vintage Carpark" is a measure to judge by.

It is debatable whether the majority of members are happy with the second option. Currently the accounting for events is anything but transparant, and I am unable to say which meetings are truely self-funding. Other types of meeting organised by the club are expected to be self-funding.

Attracting new members is an admirable intention. However, should the enjoyment of existing members be subjugated for the benefit of new members who are only interested in those aspects that are not core to the club's activities? For example, if say someone is only attracted to meetings for the modern F1 demonstrations will they really join the club? What else is there in the club for them?

Spreading the name of the VSCC to a wider audience is an admirable intention. But at the expense of satisfying the desires of existing members? Commercial organisations sometimes choose to change their target markets (eg Skoda changing from producing joke cars to joking about their cars) but should members' organisations do this without reference to their membership?

Sorry for my second rant on this Forum , but I've been holding it in for 18 months on the other place and have had to get it off my chest.

Duncan

[old Speckled Hen]

Duncan
I have been attending and competing at VSCC meetings for 35 years solely because I have an interest in Vintage and Prewar sports cars. Whilst I can watch and enjoy a historic racing car or sports car race at a VSCC meeting I have little interest in seeing any moves to make these or more modern racers the main thrust of a VSCC meet.
A further item for consideration - does anyone else feel that Silverstone in particular and possibly Donnington as well are too impersonal for VSCC racing? Safety issues for modern cars have placed spectators so far back from the action, much behind huge wire fencing that they spoil the enjoyment for me. I know that this can be overcome by marshalling but that doesn't answer the question of how do we get thousands more to attend and I wonder if some of the circuits themselves are part of the problem.

[BugEyed]

Mike

I couldn't agree with you more. Certain circuits are so fundementally unfriendly that I wonder why the VSCC go there when other alternatives are available? The public appear to vote with their "wheels" - entries are always full at Prescott and Mallory, yet are weak at Silverstone and Donington, and as for the "Vintage" carparks .....

My VSCC racing highlights for this season? The Edwardian Race, the Spero trophy, and the Moggies at Mallory and Cadwell.

Duncan

PS IMHO, the best place to see '50s and 60s cars? The Goodwood Revival - an original circuit, interesting cars (competing and spectating), period dress, and the aircraft. The VSCC puts on club meetings (and very good they are too), but the Goodwood Revival is in a different league.

[eclectic]

The Angouleme circuit is great for our kind of cars, the Edwardians last year not only looked fast from close up, the results showed that they were fast! And what a spectacle from the trackside enclosures,even closer than Mallory Park.

[John Turner]

Originally posted by old Speckled He
Duncan
Whilst I can watch and enjoy a historic racing car or sports car race at a VSCC meeting I have little interest in seeing any moves to make these or more modern racers the main thrust of a VSCC meet.

A further item for consideration - does anyone else feel that Silverstone in particular and possibly Donnington as well are too impersonal for VSCC racing? Safety issues for modern cars have placed spectators so far back from the action, much behind huge wire fencing that they spoil the enjoyment for me.

I would agree that the emphasis should not move away from the VSCC races and handicaps. Much earlier in this thread TimD suggested guest events which might spice it up enough for those who are more broadly into historic racing to swell the spectaor base.

I'd be disapppointed to see the Silverstone April meeting disappear since it is a most enjoyable first event of my spectating year. Good viewing can be had on the outside of the complex where the terraces allow spectators a clear view over the safety fence. Mind you, on a purely selfish note, I wouldn't want too many spectators there to impede my viewing/filming!!