Could a chicane have been built safely?

[NJDMONEY]

Given the layout of IMS, the narrow straight on the run to turn 13, could a tire chicane have been safely built to avoid cars spearing into a wall at over 100 mph?

Keep in mind there's a wall seperating the oval warmup lane with the race track, so the chicane would have had to be very early on the exit of turn 12, which may have made it pointless as to not reducing speeds enough going into turn 13. I assume the chicane would have to be a turn down towards the infield and then back up, because the other way would be the dangerous position I mentioned earlier of cars spearing into the wall.

I think I may have just answered my own question but perhaps there's some marshals out there who are better familiarized with FIA spec track layout.

And just to fit in with everything else: 100% Michelin's fault. The "race" was run, how can you expect to get a refund?

[marcus]

given a bit thought it could have easilly been done.

heck these guys are professional drivers if they cant work out what speed they need to do safely through a section of track then well they deserve to hit a wall at 100mph.

Spain 94 wasnt a problem (mind you there was no wall near by) and from what i remeber only 1 or 2 had a problem there during practice/qualifying and no one during the race.

this isnt rocket science no matter what anyone says , throw all the technical numbers , wind velocity , angle of the sun and how uncle tom cobbler wears his hat at me you like , if your a driver you drive the track , chuck some tires on it to make a new chicane and then you drive accordingly to that track.

simple really isnt it

[Gt_R]

Hmm..why not we'd have Michelins design all F1-tracks next season since they're so interested?

This way, it would suit their tyres perfectly.

[Wrex]

One would have thought a profession tyre company with over 100,000 klm in testing in the last 6 months could construct a tyre as well, so I'm not that confident a chicane could be made in 30 minutes.

[marcus]

hehehehe , awe come on Wrex , couple of witches hats here and hay bayle there , she'd be right mate.

Im over the shock now I think its actually funny

[knock-on]

Originally Posted by Wrex

One would have thought a profession tyre company with over 100,000 klm in testing in the last 6 months could construct a tyre as well, so I'm not that confident a chicane could be made in 30 minutes.

Thats only half the issue though. BS have unlimited testing at the moment and the benefit of having feedback of the extra wear caused by the diamond cut on the track due to their sister company; Firestone.

So, Mich were caught out and unless some of the lateral loading was removed by the addition of a chicane, then they couldn't race.

Could it have been built? Yes.

Should it have been built? Well, thats the real question.

[IronLion]

i guess we can could'a should'a would'a all day.

[knock-on]

Originally Posted by IronLion

i guess we can could'a should'a would'a all day.

Yep. Thats why this is a forum, not a press statement.

Talking of which. The Mich teams got together and got a press release out before the end of the race. The arrogance of the FIA allows them to not bother releasing one as yet.

Great direction from the "so called" governing body

[Kicking-back]

Putting up a chicane would have been the wrong decision.

Lets say a team had a problem with break wear, and asked for a hairpin to be bypassed so there was one less big stop, would anyone agree to that?

[scorch]

A couple of points come to mind over a chicane,
1. The drivers will need a free practice to work out racing lines, they are supposed to be good drivers so only 15 minutes will do.
2. Ferarri will protest if anybody else wins.
3. what happens if the tyres are hastely assembled and somone hits them and is injured, there must be some comback on the FIA over that.

[knock-on]

I don't know what would have been the best decision. Strictly speeking, events as they unfolded were to the letter of the law.

Mich brought unsuitable tyres and the teams couldn't race. End of story at least legally.

Yet another example of F1 being a business and not a sport for the fans and just goes to show that a fundemental step-change needs to happento high end motorsport.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by knock-on

Yet another example of F1 being a business and not a sport for the fans and just goes to show that a fundemental step-change needs to happento high end motorsport.

But applying the rules properly, as happened yesterday, is actually sport at its purest.

[312T4]

I was totally against about putting a chicane.
It is not fair and in the future this could have been used to make rules and track modifications at every race.
Even if I didn't like the fact to race with 6 cars, I still think this was the only way to race legally.
It was a Michelin problem, expecially because the rules say that a tyre constructor MUST take to the GP 2 different kind of tyres.
1 that is the best compromise between the kind of circuit, forecasts, speed, ecc..
1 that MUST allow all the cars supplied to take part of the race.
This is the very bad part of the story and the one I do not understand at all.
In fact you can take a wrong tyre, but why they didn't take a "sure" one??

[GTRMagic]

Taken from the comments at the end of the race (at grandprix.com)

Q: (Joe Saward - F1 Grand Prix Special) Can I ask all three of you, if your tyre manufacturer said to you that your tire couldn't make it more than ten laps, would you race?

Schumacher: No, there's no point.

Monteiro: No, you can't take the risk and probably anyway your team owners wouldn't let you race anyway. It's a big responsibility.

Barrichello: There was only one solution. If the problem was on 13, just come into the pits every lap.

Schumacher: Yeah.

Barrichello: And then they would finish seventh and eighth.

Schumacher: Honestly I understood from talking to one of the drivers that despite turn 13, they would have had the problem anyway, with chicane or without chicane.

Q: (Dieter Rencken - The Citizen) Michael, as chairman of the GPDA, could you tell me where the organization stands on this matter and where its responsibilities start and stop in terms of this sort of dangerous situation?

Schumacher: We're sort of more looking into circuit safety. In this kind of situation, put it this way, there are certain drivers that don't have the power to take decisions, so there is no point in forcing somebody or trying something. It's not the region we would consider to talk about. We have regions where it concerns all of us where we quite clearly don't have any competition influence when we can get active and when we do get active.

Q: (Bruce Martin - National Speedsport News) If the future of this event can be saved, do you see that there needs to be a permanent modification of this racecourse?

Schumacher: We have been here now how many years? Six. And we have now this problem? I'm pretty sure everybody will be much better prepared next year. So I don't see any reason why the circuit should be changed. We can adapt everything to fit the circuit.

Two big points there...

[Asp]

I'm sure a chicane could have been built. I know there are issues about making it safe, putting it in the right place, getting an FIA track inspection to verify it, etc. etc.
But, let's talk hypothetically, if Michelin had supplied a control tyre, and no teams could have raced without a chicane. Would the FIA have found a way to add a chicane? They'd probably have added a free practice session to get used to the changes, and other careful thought, but I'm sure it would have happened. If it would have possible in those facts, surely it would have been possible in the actual circumstances.

[Menelaos]

9 teams agreed to the chicane. And their 18 drivers. This alone tells me it could be done safely. I don't know myself, but I suppose it could be done, since they all agreed.

[neilwaynesmith]

The memory's a bit hazy for specific dates but in the time following Sennas death, at one circuit a tyrewall chicane WAS built on a nasty corner. Then it was 'brushed' by a car, then 'brushed' a bit more.....

Is that what you want? tyre barriers moving around and potentially dislodging in a fast part of the track?

And please don't say "fasten them or anchor them to the track". As if IMS would countenance damaging their circuit because a supposedly highly professional company cannot make a tyre to go around a specific corner.

[Skam85]

I wouldn't be feasable. Or safe, more chance of a driver crashing heavily into the makeshift chicane IMO.

[Menelaos]

So, 9 teams, 18 people running IN the circuit are all stupid. They think it's safer, but it's not. Which is to be proven by us, a bunch of people just chatting in a forum.

[alfasud]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

So, 9 teams, 18 people running IN the circuit are all stupid. They think it's safer, but it's not. Which is to be proven by us, a bunch of people just chatting in a forum.

Nice teams motivated by self interest....

Seven running Michelin.
One that wanted to avoid a real points scoring competition against Jordan.. a competition which they will (and did) lose.
Other one who may wish to keep on the good side with their engine supplier (who had a car on pole).

On the other hand, those who are chatting on the message board don't stand to gain or lose a cent either way.

Back to the chicane... could it have been built?
Well something could have been built.

Could it have been safe?
Maybe if they went around behind the safety car... otherwise it a bit of a toss of the coin. Quite possibly no safer than the options already offered to the Michelin teams.

[N I Tram]

Midland choosing to race will not have made Toyota happy - quite the opposite. If they'd've stuck with their original pledge to have the tyre barrier built, leaving only Ferrari willing to race, there's no way they would have refused to build a barrier - and I think those who said it was safe can be trusted on that.

As for 'those who are chatting on the message board don't stand to gain or lose a cent either way', I know seveal tenthers went to Indy - and they've been robbed big time by all of this.

[alfasud]

Originally Posted by N I Tram

Midland choosing to race will not have made Toyota happy - quite the opposite. If they'd've stuck with their original pledge to have the tyre barrier built, leaving only Ferrari willing to race, there's no way they would have refused to build a barrier - and I think those who said it was safe can be trusted on that.

I was answering Menelaos point where he counted Midland as one of the 9 - so at that point they would have been making Toyota happy.

So who said it was safe?.... that is to say, who that is an expert in track design/construction, rather than one of the 9 we just discussed.

[Suze]

They possibly could have built the chicane, but I personally don't think corners should just be built in 40 mins or whatever. It was Michelin's mistake and though I would like to have seen the chicane for the fans and race side of things, circuit modifications shouldn't have to be made because of a tyre company's (albeit very large) mistake.

And shame it's not just like DC said - a little bit of kerb and a drill! Also somebody else previously posted - drivers would need to have practised the corner. Martin Brundle mentioned you can't just "add 50m on to a racetrack." So although lots of people are moaning / disappointed etc (including myself yesterday), I believe the right decision was made albeit meaning the race was a farce. But we shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place. And *if* the chicane had been built - could they guarantee that no tyres would explode from the other pressures they're put under during the race?

[Gt_R]

Nobody can say for sure that a chicane can be added and it's safe. Who is to say it will be safe?

Why spend millions designing an F1 circuit if an hour's work and some tyres can give you a chicane?

Even if it could be built, which i doubt so considering that drivers had limited practice and set up times, and it would be a sub-standard last minute job... the more important issue is "SHOULD it be built?". No.

FIA were right to insist on not adding a barrier. Without the chicane, there are options available to Michelin to still take part in the race without compromising safety, but Michelin refused.

[mac]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Schumacher: Honestly I understood from talking to one of the drivers that despite turn 13, they would have had the problem anyway, with chicane or without chicane.

Interesting.

I think a chicane could have been built. Whether it would have been safe or not, I don't know .....

The FIA were right not to pander to Michelin - it was not up to them to do so. They provided legitimate options to continue on with the show ....... change tyres and suffer the penalty, come through pitlane each lap, or reduce the speed through the turn and have it monitored by the FIA.

Michelin flatly refused these proposals.

By suggesting a ludicrous proposal (changing the track configuration to suit their tyres), they knew that when the FIA rightly said no, they would have grounds to blame the FIA for not cooperating, when in fact they were the non-cooperative party. They knew full well that certain people will jump at any chance to get stuck into the FIA and played upon that.

I am perfectly happy with the role the FIA played.

The arrogance of Michelin's deflection of blame is staggering.