Italy GP Alonso's off/ Marshal intervention???

AndyP MyCo · 12 Sep 2004, 13:15 (Ref:1094007)

Hi there, I wonder if anyone, especially anyone who has a definitive correct answer (or even a BLUE BOOK owner!!), to what should have happened regarding the Alonso spin at Monza this weekend Sun12 sept.
Alonso spun entering an 'S' bend (unsure of its name!) and ended up beached half in (back end) and half out of gravel, nose facing oncoming traffic (at speed), obviously in a very dangerous position, BUT, with engine still running, Alonso wanted a push!!
TV commentry said that it warranted a push from the marshals, but I wonder what you all may think about this, were the marshals correct to tell Alonso "NO (no push), out of the car" and then the snatch vehicle removed the car.
The marshals were on the relatively safe side of the car.

Hope someone could answer this one!

1200Datto27 · 12 Sep 2004, 14:55 (Ref:1094089)

They should have done the same thing as was done for MS at last years German GP, and pushed him. Going by what the commentators where saying, as he had kept the engine running, and was in a dangerous position he was right to want to be pushed out.

mark_l · 12 Sep 2004, 15:21 (Ref:1094114)

AndyP, the blue book does not cover FIA events, you need the yellow book (I think it is called).

Personally I would of given him a shove, less work than winching his car off the track and less time spent exposed to danger.

If the rulebook says he should of retired and you gave him a push out of the gravel the answer then would be the black flag.

Of course it shouldn't of come to that, as he shouldn't be in the gravel in the first place.

ss_collins · 12 Sep 2004, 15:26 (Ref:1094118)

should clearly have been pushed - the marshals were in error

Neil Warland · 12 Sep 2004, 15:29 (Ref:1094122)

Personally, because the car was only half in the gravel, I would have given him a shove. Any further in, and you'd never have got it out. The rest would be up to the stewards to decide.

The only other consideration was that Alonso would have had to cross the track or do a 180 in order to rejoin - quite a dangerous manouvre, blind around the corner.

F1JordanUk · 12 Sep 2004, 15:46 (Ref:1094139)

Should have been a shove in my oppinion, It would have been far quicker and safer than snatching it afterwards.
If the FIA thought otherwise they could have just black flagged him afterwards

Kicking-back · 12 Sep 2004, 15:52 (Ref:1094149)

It was correct not to push him.

That would have been a dangerous place to rejoin - and he was most of the way into the gravel.

F1JordanUk · 12 Sep 2004, 16:36 (Ref:1094185)

But they could have easily used the gap between the Ferrari's and the rest of the grid as a safe place to rejoin!

Novice · 12 Sep 2004, 19:23 (Ref:1094348)

Its easy to comment on a situation when you look at it on tv. I would have said push him out of the gravel, but with the kerbing that he was beached on it may not have been possible. That and the fact he is not in a Ferrari or Italian.

aprescott · 13 Sep 2004, 13:11 (Ref:1095141)

At the end of the day it was a judgement call of the marshals there, not the ones sitting on the sofa. If I had been there I think a push would have been in order.

Micky.H · 13 Sep 2004, 13:27 (Ref:1095160)

With it being F1, was it more the judgement of race control rather than the marshals?

Stevespurr · 13 Sep 2004, 17:42 (Ref:1095438)

If it had been Silverstone it would have been down to race control and the I/O. But I would have not pushed him out even if I had been ordered to by race control. Thats what you have snatch for to get them out of the gravel. They shouldnt get in there if they want to race.

F1JordanUk · 13 Sep 2004, 17:55 (Ref:1095456)

It's not about whose Job it is, it's about the quickest and safest way to remove the danger
Lee

**Woolley** · 13 Sep 2004, 18:13 (Ref:1095478)

The back of the car was well beached, especially after he'd spun the wheels and dropped the bottom of the car onto the gravel. In addition, it would have needed to be pushed over the kerb, and it was clear that it was greater than the ride height as the underside hit it on the way over. It would have been exceptionally difficult to move the car with the driver in it, in addition to which they would have been pushing it into the path of oncoming traffic which they couldn't properly see (at very high approach speed). The right decision was made in my opinion.

Hepatic · 15 Sep 2004, 07:43 (Ref:1097002)

Alonso has probably watched the incident by now and may well agree it was the right thing to do. At the time he'd have been full of adrenaline and wouldn't be thinking "is it safe to get a push", but more like "####! get me on the track NOW!" Its natural for a driver to want to continue, even if he has 3 wheels on the car (Mr Gronholm....) and it's up to us to be more rational and decide what the safest course of action is.

Under a safety car it would have been fine to try and push him, but under yellows only it was too dangerous. Bear in mind also that it's the same corner that a marshal died at a few years back...

NiG_21 · 15 Sep 2004, 08:40 (Ref:1097030)

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Warland
Personally, because the car was only half in the gravel, I would have given him a shove.

You need to watch the replay again. You'll see he barely had a single wheel on the circuit and the rest are firmly in the gravel. :confused:

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Warland
Any further in, and you'd never have got it out.

So you answered your own question there.

**Woolley** · 15 Sep 2004, 18:19 (Ref:1097508)

...with a kerb in front that was higher than the ground clearance of the car. You could see that as it went over on the way in - bounce, bounce, SCraaaPpe, bounce, stop. Spin, spin, spin again for good luck, sunk. Then he asks for a push...

Maybe another good reason for drivers to spend a day on the bank?

F1JordanUk · 15 Sep 2004, 18:32 (Ref:1097520)

What they need is hydraulic suspension!! (Citroen style)

tangoed sparky · 16 Sep 2004, 20:31 (Ref:1098708)

This is the reason that I am not that bothered about becoming an IO. Every body has an opinion and there will always be some body to pick fault!!!! I dare say that race control had told the IO to leave it there and get the driver out. The snatch vehicle was very quickly scrambled which is always done by race control. Those that have marshaled a GP will know that all IO's have radios and you can not usualy f**t with out race controls say so.

**Woolley** · 16 Sep 2004, 21:21 (Ref:1098759)

"Marshal to Race Control: permission to eat pork pie, please?"

SJC-214 · 16 Sep 2004, 23:09 (Ref:1098824)

Speaking as an IO I think you need to take a wider view. If there was a safe gap in the traffic (which you could not see from the TV coverage) and it was safe for the marshals to have an attempt at pushing it out then they should have done so. It would have been perfectly legal as Alonso had kept the engine running and the marshals where simply removing it from a potentially dangerous position.

However, if in the Marshals opinion it was not safe for whatever reason then they did the right thing, after all the Marshals safety is the most important consideration here.

Its easy to be critical of others when your watching it from the safety of your arm chair.

deebrief · 19 Sep 2004, 14:12 (Ref:1101057)

Difficult decision, but even if it had been possible to push him back onto the track, it was a blind corner and after the push you as the marshal are a target until you reach the safety area again behind the barriers.
Therefore no, bring in the snatch equipment.

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