Can Alexander Albon survive at Red Bull?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Could just be that there are less options at the moment and perhaps wanting to not be so knee-jerk as they have been previously. ???

Fewer.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

It's a possibility. But to be pedantic, Alex is half Thai. He's also half British. And having been brought up and educated in the UK and done all his early racing in the UK, you could say he is genetically half Thai but culturally fully British.

Whatever being "culturally fully British" means, he races under a Thai flag, so what else really matters?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

he races under a Thai flag, so what else really matters?

The fact that he’s not a Thai speaker?

[Oldtony]

Thailand does have a history in GP racing if you go back far enough.
Look up the records fo B.Bira just pre war WWII and through to the early 50's
Member of the Thai royal family which is where the money came from but he certainly wasn't lacking in talent.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Thailand does have a history in GP racing if you go back far enough.
Look up the records fo B.Bira just pre war WWII and through to the early 50's
Member of the Thai royal family which is where the money came from but he certainly wasn't lacking in talent.

Beat me to it OT!

The two Siamese princes, Chula Chakrabongse and Bira Birabongse, whose trio of ERAs became famous as "Hanuman", "Romulus" and "Remus", ran their own team, operating from The White Mouse Garage, which incidentally came from Chula's nickname, Nou, which is Siamese for little mouse, and a mouse was thus painted on Bira's cars to signify Price Chula's involvement.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Thailand does have a history in GP racing if you go back far enough.
Look up the records fo B.Bira just pre war WWII and through to the early 50's
Member of the Thai royal family which is where the money came from but he certainly wasn't lacking in talent.

Back when it was still called Siam by some people, in 1948, Prince Bira won the GP at Zandvoort

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_UqBGlQWbA

[Peter Mallett]

I was going to also mention that Eddie Irvine, although born in Northern Ireland, raced under the Irish flag.

It is possible that F1 management see Thailand as part of its World marketing strategy which, together the Red Bull connection would provide some political considerations for the team and the overall management.

[Akrapovic]

I thought you could race under whatever flag you wanted really? Grosjean is Swiss. Getting a French racing license was cheaper and easier than Swiss for obvious reasons. Coulthard raced under a Saltire rather than his British license. Peters Irvine example is a brilliant one because of the politics involved.

[Peter Mallett]

You may be correct, lm not sure but I suspect that DC raced under the MSA which is the UK ASN so when he won they played the UK National Anthem and raised the Union Flag. His helmet was indeed a saltire. There is no Scottish ASN as far as I know.

But if Albon is racing under a Thai licence then that is his racing nationality.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

You may be correct, lm not sure but I suspect that DC raced under the MSA which is the UK ASN so when he won they played the UK National Anthem and raised the Union Flag. His helmet was indeed a saltire. There is no Scottish ASN as far as I know.

But if Albon is racing under a Thai licence then that is his racing nationality.

Forgot about the flag and anthem raised - I was thinking more about the flags on his car, which were always saltire.

What anthem did Eddie get?

[crmalcolm]

My understanding is that the flag a driver races under is based on the nationality entered on their license. Which is recorded as per the details of their passport, not the country issuing the license.

So in the case of the drivers mentioned:

Grosjean holds dual French-Swiss nationality from his parents, so is/was free to choose either nationality on his license.
Coulthard is British, so raced under the Union Flag - as shown in the image below.
Irvine is a strange example. Being born on the island of Ireland means you can hold a UK or ROI passport. Irvine actually held a British passport, but the FIA mistakenly recorded his entry as ROI. This has been corrected on their website - as seen in 1994 when he was recorded as 'GBR'. There is a transcript of an interview from 1995 here in which he discusses the matter. 'More often than not, Irvine's nationality is listed as British, and the Union Jack flies next to his name on the grid charts and qualifying listings. It may be technically correct, but there's nothing British about the accent, or the outlook. [...] "But at the end of the day, I'm Irish. I mean, I've got a British passport, but if you're from Ireland, north or south, you're Irish. And 'British' is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn't it?"'

Back on topic - Albon also holds dual-nationality, and has opted to race under the Thai flag. If that is for personal reasons, or whether it helps with marketing is an interesting discussion point. Maybe it's time for F1 to consider dropping the nationality from an entry and allow drivers to compete under a brand - just think of the marketing opportunities...


Coulthard:

Irvine:

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Forgot about the flag and anthem raised - I was thinking more about the flags on his car, which were always saltire.

What anthem did Eddie get?

I understand what you mean - but the flag on the car does not really reflect the nationality someone is racing under. Unless everyone racing for Force India was Indian?

When the podium ceremony was carried out correctly, Irvine's anthem was that of the UK. When they got it wrong, his family received death threats.
'Eddie Irvine would like to think he will discover on Sunday if the authorities are prepared to meet his request for a flag depicting a shamrock to be displayed on the podium in his honour. Better still, if they are prepared to play the non- sectarian Londonderry Air to mark his victory. The Ulsterman stood beneath the Irish tricolour after taking second place in Buenos Aires and, as a result, his parents received threatening phone calls.

Irvine, who lives in the Republic and is licensed as a racing driver there, wants to avoid any implied commitment to either the tricolour or the Union flag, suggesting the shamrock symbol would be a politically and socially acceptable compromise.

He said: "It can be a help being Irish and British, and this has not caused me problems, but it has for my father and mother back home, and people who work for me. Politics should be kept out of sport."'

[S griffin]

Anyway Albon gets another chance at Turkey and the team are trying to build him up it seems

[Akrapovic]

Am I not right in thinking that your citizenship does not always define the flag you race under? Paul Drayson was not allowed to gain an FIA international license due to being blind in one eye. He raced under an American license with an American flag for a short time, before the FIA change the rules when they realised he was not as big a danger as feared.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I understand what you mean - but the flag on the car does not really reflect the nationality someone is racing under. Unless everyone racing for Force India was Indian?

When the podium ceremony was carried out correctly, Irvine's anthem was that of the UK. When they got it wrong, his family received death threats.
'Eddie Irvine would like to think he will discover on Sunday if the authorities are prepared to meet his request for a flag depicting a shamrock to be displayed on the podium in his honour. Better still, if they are prepared to play the non- sectarian Londonderry Air to mark his victory. The Ulsterman stood beneath the Irish tricolour after taking second place in Buenos Aires and, as a result, his parents received threatening phone calls.

Irvine, who lives in the Republic and is licensed as a racing driver there, wants to avoid any implied commitment to either the tricolour or the Union flag, suggesting the shamrock symbol would be a politically and socially acceptable compromise.

He said: "It can be a help being Irish and British, and this has not caused me problems, but it has for my father and mother back home, and people who work for me. Politics should be kept out of sport."'

I confess all of this passed me by. Extraordinary.....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Am I not right in thinking that your citizenship does not always define the flag you race under? Paul Drayson was not allowed to gain an FIA international license due to being blind in one eye. He raced under an American license with an American flag for a short time, before the FIA change the rules when they realised he was not as big a danger as feared.

Did he actually race under an American flag though - or just with an American-issued license?

In fact - is nationality a factor in ALMS? The entry list(s) refer to hometown as opposed to nationality:



Not trying to be picky - genuinely curious if there is reference to nationality in ALMS?
On another note - full credit for going racing and forcing the FIA to change their rule on allowing him to drive.

[crmalcolm]

On a seperate note whilst we are way off topic and in the realms of Northern Irish podium anthems - a moment of genuine sporting spirit from the Commonwealth Games in 1990:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtVpnIQEokE

Will the FIA have the recording of Phleng Chat Thai ready?

[Kato]

Somewhere back towards the topic, sure not on it but back in that direction - would it not be really interesting, for the sake of us mug punters watching on, to have Lewis take Albon's seat? Someone interesting to take Lewis's seat and then watch Max and Lewis really fight it out. It would mean we could really see how good Lewis is, but even more importantly really see how good Max is. And, someone else could have a go in a decent car, the Merc.

If this were to happen I would then shout from the rooftops that there is undisputedly a God in heaven. And he/she cares about the rest of us.

[Knowlesy]

I think we know how good Lewis is tbh.

Anyways... decent-ish weekend for Albon?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think we know how good Lewis is tbh.

Anyways... decent-ish weekend for Albon?

This sums it up for me. Some saying he redeemed himself - I'm not sure I agree with that. It wasn't a bad weekend, but hard to say he did really well.

[Knowlesy]

Well the other way of looking at it is he was outshone by Perez.

It was just a solid weekend (crash aside), but would have been better placed early in the season as something to build on.

[Kato]

Yes it was a solid weekend, far better than usual.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well the other way of looking at it is he was outshone by Perez.

It was just a solid weekend (crash aside), but would have been better placed early in the season as something to build on.

Yep, pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

Albon was fairly decisive in any overtakes he made, which one would expect as we've seen it before.

At the start of each stint he seemed to carve into the gap to Checo but as the stints wore on he fell back quite a bit. Was this because he was running out of rubber or something else?

I still expected him to beat the RP and finish closer to Max but Checo is a wily old fox. However that is too much ecpectation on my part.

If Albon can repeat the qualy and fimishing positions in the last 2 races that will be enough to keep his drive.

Would I replace him with Checo? If this was any other team, yes I probably would I don't think any driver is going to to get the opportunity to have a decent crack at Verstappen in a Red Bull.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If Albon can repeat the qualy and fimishing positions in the last 2 races that will be enough to keep his drive.

Would I replace him with Checo? If this was any other team, yes I probably would I don't think any driver is going to to get the opportunity to have a decent crack at Verstappen in a Red Bull.

I'm not convinced that two more decent drives should save him.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm not convinced that two more decent drives should save him.

I tend to agree. Position wise he is doing better. Delta to Max is still quite large however. I think keeping him another year is just doing the same as this year and hoping it somehow works better. If their focus is on being "best of the rest" and not pushing Mercedes, then that might be fine. If they want something to change, they should make a change.

Richard