Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 Aug 2020, 15:46 (Ref:3993360)   #1
Columbus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
England
Sussex, UK
Posts: 22
Columbus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can Alexander Albon survive at Red Bull?

With so many self-inflicted practice shunts and clumsy race collisions, can Alex Albon defy statistics and keep his seat at Red Bull?

On paper, several drivers in (and out of) the F1 paddock are better qualified to support Max Versatppen's charge at Mercedes-AMG - including the fast improving Pierre Gasly who seems to be drawing as much strength from his successor's weakness as his own superior pedigree.

Is another Gasly/Albon swap imminent?

Or is it time to look beyond Red Bull Junior Team alumni? Perez perhaps?
Columbus is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 15:51 (Ref:3993361)   #2
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,528
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Has Gasly improved that much? A couple of decent performances. But he failed to shine before he was demoted. Personally, I would stick with Albon. He has the raw pace and he's still a youngster. You mention 'several' drivers. Who else did you have in mind? (Please don't say Di Resta!.... ).
Aysedasi is online now  
__________________
96 days...
Old 6 Aug 2020, 16:31 (Ref:3993366)   #3
Columbus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
England
Sussex, UK
Posts: 22
Columbus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't worry, I definitely wasn't going to say Di Resta or any other F1 "old boy".

Formula 1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of international motorsport. The best of the best. In theory at least, every F1 driver should have the potential to win the championship. So there should be no room for once great drivers who are now long past their "use by" date (sorry Kimi) and only the very best young drivers should make the grade. Like Micheal, Lewis, Seb, Max and Charles - drivers capable of steering a decent car to victory from the off.
Lando and George certainly have the potential, given the right equipment. But Alex already has the right equipment and rarely sees which way his younger team mate went.
Columbus is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 16:38 (Ref:3993367)   #4
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,528
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I suspect that most team mates would be in the shadow of Max. Rather like Seb before him, Red Bull is his team and any team mate will be a definite #2. You say Michael and Seb? Are you looking back historically? Personally, I'd love to see George Russell in a competitive car.
Aysedasi is online now  
__________________
96 days...
Old 6 Aug 2020, 16:45 (Ref:3993368)   #5
gert
Veteran
 
gert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 6,137
gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!
Maybe first Red Bull needs to analyze why the driver of the 2nd Red Bull car is not performing the way he should.

* is he just not good enough: i.e it is Albon's fault and Gasly's fault before him?
* is he put under too much pressure? Is it too overwhelming to be Verstappen's teammate?
* is it a car/setup problem where the car is developed in a way that Verstappen likes (or doesn't mind) and is it difficult to drive for the other driver?
* is Red Bull currently not capable to run 2 cars at a competitive level?
* is it a matter of focus: does the team concentrate on making Verstappen's car faster so he can maybe fight for wins later on rather than try and improve the car to suit Albon's style?

Is it a combination of some or all of the above?

Red Bull probably knows, and if they don't I think they better try and find out.

Depending on the answers to the above
* replacing Albon by Gasly may be a part of the solution or may be just a status quo with just a different name above the garage door.
* replacing Albon by Perez, Hulkenberg, Vettel ... may be a soluton or just more of the same
gert is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 16:53 (Ref:3993369)   #6
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by gert View Post
Maybe first Red Bull needs to analyze why the driver of the 2nd Red Bull car is not performing the way he should.
I agree fully - but I would add:

Is Albon performing the way Red Bull expect?
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me."
Old 6 Aug 2020, 17:08 (Ref:3993371)   #7
Columbus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
England
Sussex, UK
Posts: 22
Columbus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes, historically the best drivers have always been the ones capable of upsetting the establishment on arrival. Drivers with a proven track record in junior formulae. Too many of today's drivers are in F1 for reasons other than pure merit - the sport/sponsor wants to boost viewing/sales in new countries, ex F1 racer dad, dad owns a team etc.
Couldn't agree more about George Russell. Lando Norris is rather special too. Between them they claimed 8 junior titles on their way to F1 and have career race win rates of 11.8% and 20.8% respectively. (Alex Albon is the only Red Bull F1 driver never to have won a car racing championship and has won only 4.8% of the races in his career so far - the lowest of any Red Bull, Torro Rosso or Alpha Tauri driver past or present!)

Last edited by Columbus; 6 Aug 2020 at 17:13. Reason: typo
Columbus is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 18:11 (Ref:3993386)   #8
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
The problem is who can replace him? Whilst Ferrari and Merc can go outside of their contracted drivers, see Sainz at Ferrari, Red Bull seem to only want Red Bull drivers in their car.
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Old 6 Aug 2020, 19:09 (Ref:3993398)   #9
Hawkwood
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
United Kingdom
Warrington
Posts: 2,052
Hawkwood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHawkwood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It seems that having Toro Rosso / Alpha Tauri has painted the senior Red Bull team into a corner in tha regard.


They're kind of stuck with the youngsters unless they want to hire from outside and therefore admit the conveyor belt isn't working as well as it should.


Perhaps it'd be better to keep the senior team and simply sponsor another team to take their latest youngster, like Red Bull used to do back before they had their own team?
Hawkwood is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 19:38 (Ref:3993405)   #10
steve nielsen
Veteran
 
steve nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Netherlands
Rotterdam- Holland
Posts: 4,413
steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think the problem is Gasly and Albon just are not up to the level(yet) that Ricciardo was, nothing to do with the team really, but a case of not having the right talent available when Ricciardo decided to leave.

both Gasly and Albon needed more experience but were promoted to early wich is only possible with exeptional talent like Max or Charles
steve nielsen is offline  
Old 6 Aug 2020, 21:08 (Ref:3993421)   #11
Greem
Veteran
 
Greem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,067
Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!
To answer the original question: yes.

This year is not the norm. If he's not with RBR next year I'll buy a pint. I'm not saying who for, I'm just buy a pint!
Greem is offline  
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
Old 6 Aug 2020, 21:33 (Ref:3993427)   #12
gert
Veteran
 
gert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 6,137
gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nielsen View Post
a case of not having the right talent available when Ricciardo decided to leave.
They had Carlos Sainz, but apparantly H. Marko doesn't like him.
gert is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 06:49 (Ref:3993457)   #13
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gert View Post
They had Carlos Sainz, but apparantly H. Marko doesn't like him.
Ricciardo most probably copped the same treatment so he walked. Verstappen is his favorite child and I can't see anyone avoiding the same treatment as second driver so the second seat at RBR will continue to be a poisened chalice if Marko doesn't change. DR had the advantage of being proven and sought after so he could afford to give them the middle finger.
Casper is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 08:53 (Ref:3993472)   #14
steve nielsen
Veteran
 
steve nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Netherlands
Rotterdam- Holland
Posts: 4,413
steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Ricciardo most probably copped the same treatment so he walked. Verstappen is his favorite child and I can't see anyone avoiding the same treatment as second driver so the second seat at RBR will continue to be a poisened chalice if Marko doesn't change. DR had the advantage of being proven and sought after so he could afford to give them the middle finger.
Absolute nonsense
steve nielsen is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 08:55 (Ref:3993473)   #15
steve nielsen
Veteran
 
steve nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Netherlands
Rotterdam- Holland
Posts: 4,413
steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gert View Post
They had Carlos Sainz, but apparantly H. Marko doesn't like him.
Marko really did not appreciate Sainz seniors comments in the Spanish press about promoting Max over Carlos, and it was Carlos(and/or his father) who decided they did'nt want to wait anymore at Toro Rosso and left for Renault.
steve nielsen is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 09:11 (Ref:3993479)   #16
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,036
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nielsen View Post
Marko really did not appreciate Sainz seniors comments in the Spanish press about promoting Max over Carlos, and it was Carlos(and/or his father) who decided they did'nt want to wait anymore at Toro Rosso and left for Renault.
...And it worked out well for him,, now out of /away from the toxic Marko influence and after a hiccup at Renault, now with a good future on his own terms.
E.B is online now  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 09:47 (Ref:3993492)   #17
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Exactly, Danny and Carlos saw the light and decided that they would be better off going their own way.
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Old 7 Aug 2020, 10:03 (Ref:3993500)   #18
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Red Bull seem to basically be Benetton in the Schumacher days.

Avoid that second seat like the plague youngsters.
Knowlesy is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 11:58 (Ref:3993529)   #19
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
The problem is you need to prove yourself there or you have nowhere else to go. That’s how Sainz and Ricciardo have got other seats
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Old 7 Aug 2020, 13:29 (Ref:3993548)   #20
Columbus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
England
Sussex, UK
Posts: 22
Columbus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I agree, there’s no curse on the second seat. If you’re good enough, it’s an incredible opportunity to prove your worth in a top-three car - albeit in a supporting role. No one is expecting the #2 driver to take points away from Max, but if Red Bull wants to take the fight to Mercedes and Ferrari for either title, Verstappen needs a wing-man capable of taking points from Hamilton, Bottas, Leclerc and Vettel. Next season, they’ll have an ambitious Ferrari-mounted Sainz - with a point to prove - to contend with.
Gasly wasn’t good enough and Alexander Albon - who has the weakest CV of any Red Bull/Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri driver - probably wouldn’t even be in F1 if he hadn’t switched to Thai nationality (son of ex-BTCC racer Nigel, he was born and raised in the UK and thanks to mum had much of his racing career funded by British tax payers!).
Red Bull needs to forget Marko’s failing Junior Team ladder and remember its radical roots. Time to recruit some real talent from elsewhere. Hire Perez or Vettel? Make Norris an offer he can’t refuse? Or look further afield to Formula E and beyond? There are plenty of drivers out there with the skills to get the job done.
Columbus is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 13:47 (Ref:3993556)   #21
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbus View Post
I agree, there’s no curse on the second seat. If you’re good enough, it’s an incredible opportunity to prove your worth in a top-three car - albeit in a supporting role. No one is expecting the #2 driver to take points away from Max, but if Red Bull wants to take the fight to Mercedes and Ferrari for either title, Verstappen needs a wing-man capable of taking points from Hamilton, Bottas, Leclerc and Vettel. Next season, they’ll have an ambitious Ferrari-mounted Sainz - with a point to prove - to contend with.
Gasly wasn’t good enough and Alexander Albon - who has the weakest CV of any Red Bull/Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri driver - probably wouldn’t even be in F1 if he hadn’t switched to Thai nationality (son of ex-BTCC racer Nigel, he was born and raised in the UK and thanks to mum had much of his racing career funded by British tax payers!).
Red Bull needs to forget Marko’s failing Junior Team ladder and remember its radical roots. Time to recruit some real talent from elsewhere. Hire Perez or Vettel? Make Norris an offer he can’t refuse? Or look further afield to Formula E and beyond? There are plenty of drivers out there with the skills to get the job done.
There is no curse on the second seat, no. But RBR struggles to have 2 drivers who can take the fight to Mercedes as Marko and Christian have the attention span of a kid with ADHD overdosing on sugar in a brightly coloured room. As soon as the new talent comes along, they don't care about the other driver. Danny Ric went from Hero to second best in record time. Albon may not be doing that well, but the team has a history of badly managing drivers.
Akrapovic is online now  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 13:55 (Ref:3993561)   #22
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Lord Howe Island
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 3,519
steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbus View Post
Or look further afield to Formula E and beyond? There are plenty of drivers out there with the skills to get the job done.
Half the Formula E grid are Red Bull Rejects.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
It's just my opinion.
Old 7 Aug 2020, 14:40 (Ref:3993567)   #23
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I’d go further and say most of the FE grid are F1 rejects

And yes, you need a strong head and be able to stand on your own two feet when you drive for Red Bull. They ain’t one for lending a helping hand when times are tough
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Old 7 Aug 2020, 15:02 (Ref:3993569)   #24
gert
Veteran
 
gert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 6,137
gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!gert is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
They ain’t one for lending a helping hand when times are tough
And maybe that is one of the main causes of their curent (and past) problem(s) ?
gert is offline  
Old 7 Aug 2020, 15:08 (Ref:3993570)   #25
djinvicta
Veteran
 
djinvicta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Wales
Mojacar Southern Spain
Posts: 2,303
djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!djinvicta has a real shot at the podium!
I'm just waiting for another "Max" to land the 2nd seat. Sparks will fly..
djinvicta is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alexander or Sandy Grau?? kmchow Touring Car Racing 8 29 Feb 2012 21:10
Can holden survive? bluesport Australasian Touring Cars. 29 11 Oct 2008 13:42
Can Red Bull keep it up? kmchow Formula One 12 20 Mar 2006 03:29
Red Bull - No Bull Glen Formula One 48 11 Mar 2005 10:59
No bull? Red Bull Jordan! slicktoast Formula One 38 23 Dec 2002 19:08


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.