Yet more fencing at Brands Hatch

[Alfaholic]

I haven't seen this mentioned on here, but spectators and amateur snappers may like to know that there is new chain link fencing all the way on the inside of the circuit on the run up to Druids (see below)



Druids itself and the run down to Graham Hill bend are (currently) still clear...

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

I haven't seen this mentioned on here, but spectators and amateur snappers may like to know that there is new chain link fencing all the way on the inside of the circuit on the run up to Druids (see below)

Attachment 34750

Druids itself and the run down to Graham Hill bend are (currently) still clear...

Never realised that was a spectator area-not been since 2005In view of current crowd sizes seen on TV I hardly think there is a demand-save money and metal by just leaving it empty? Did people ever use the bridge or is it just a ad hording

[Greem]

Pity, I was there in May for the Masters meeting and got some great photos from more or less exactly where that new fence now is. It was a three or four strand waist-high wire fence then.



See the rest here. I'm glad out the back of the GP loop has no fences, I got one nice one there!

[Bodysnatcher]

DTM have been pushing for that change for at least 3 years.
Previously when the DTM were in town the Druids inside enclosure was closed, apart from last year when I believe the circuit successfully argued that as things stood the circuit was FIA grade 2 licenced and the DTMs were an FIA grade 2 series.
Maybe this was the price to keep the DTM happy for a few more years, sorry Snet.

Some hammer chewer togs will not be happy.

[andrewc]

and deservedly so, the run up to Druids was a great place to get photos. Whilst I and others with a media pass will be able to get in front, the amateur has had one of the best angles disappear.

Shame.

[grantp]

I had an interesting conversation with someone on Monday where it was pointed out that those few race series that are fully promoted to the massed population - say BTCC for an example of a publically promoted genre - now regularly use crashes in their promotional material. Of course they tend to have plenty of visual material to use. Therefore it is safe to presume that the large crowds only turn up in the hope of a crashfest. Maybe there was a real social purpose to the fully fenced Stock Car Stadiums when they existed widely around the country. (Could Brands Hatch develop a figure of 8 track on the Indy circuit I wonder? Could be a great crowd puller ... Silverstone could do it easily.)

Once they have paid the public need to be protected of course and permanent caging seems an obvious way of keeping the car's bits away from them and them off the track.

The other meetings during a year where spectators are thin on the ground (and seemingly getting thinner as the years go by - I wonder why?) are not a mojor influence in financial terms. Such meetings are, for the most part, run by clubs for the benefit of their membership - the people paying the club membership and race entry fees. Which is not unreasonable but it leaves regular spectators with little or no influence, other than voting with their feet of course, but who would notice?

However even when in possession of a media pass one is not immune from the effect of fences. They don't suddenly become invisible to the cameras. They do become a ubiquitous part of the backdrop almost everywhere. Silverstone is a great example.

You can try to find alternative angles to give some relief. Getting above the the fences by going into the grandstands (assuming they are open) is one option - providing you only want to take 'shots taken from above in the stands' type shots. You may need to battle a paying customer for their seat position to make this work at some of the more popular meetings.

Alternatively there are a few circuits not so far infested with fences everywhere or, at least for now, there is rallying and perhaps a few other motorsport variants that could be of interest.

Or maybe there are other things to point a camera at ...

[BertMk2]

Bloody hell. There goes another one of the good spots for taking pictures then. They seem to be intent on ruining Brands with fencing.

[Piglet]

Yep dreadful, much better that circuits don't bother spending money on fencing and put spectators at risk instead. After all when do cars ever go over barriers...

[BertMk2]

You accept a level of risk by going to the meeting in the first place - the only way to make it safe is to ban spectators altogether. If there are areas with high fencing and areas without then you can choose what level of risk you think is acceptable. I haven't bothered going to Silverstone for years now because the fencing and large distance from the track make it a totally soulless place - you're so disconnected from the action that you may as well watch it on the tv. It'd be a shame if Brands went the same way.

[pauln]

But then Brands has had two big incidents of cars ending up where spectators usually are over the past two years. They've been incredibly lucky not to have anybody injured.

I'd agree that there's a balance to be struck - and I'd certainly disagree that Silverstone is soulless!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Yep dreadful, much better that circuits don't bother spending money on fencing and put spectators at risk instead. After all when do cars ever go over barriers...

Or, in rare circumstances, through gaps in fences that are already in place.

On the other hand that incident earlier in the year in the MR2 race does provide an indication of the level of disintrest amongst the population at large given that the spectator accessible area involved was not full of spectators.

I see from a video in another post that the Mallory tyre wall boundary at Gerards is finally being moved back some way. Presumably it only stops where it does so that planning consent is limited to an application in Leicestershire alone.

Perhaps there is more money to be made converting the sport to something that looks similar to oval racing complete with demolition derbys. Or the NASCAR model.

As a matter of interest how many times have cars or bikes (or bits of them) ended up in that section of Druids over the years? Until this year I had not been to Brands since 1974 so I'm a bit out of touch with events.

[woodyracing]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

I haven't seen this mentioned on here, but spectators and amateur snappers may like to know that there is new chain link fencing all the way on the inside of the circuit on the run up to Druids (see below)

oww, thats a shame i was their earlier this year and it was great for photos. If I can't get any decent photos at a circuit without a media pass, i wont bother going.

[KA]

Originally Posted by grantp

As a matter of interest how many times have cars or bikes (or bits of them) ended up in that section of Druids over the years? Until this year I had not been to Brands since 1974 so I'm a bit out of touch with events.

I've been going to Brands for over 20 years, though admittedly only a couple of times a year in the last few years, and I don't think I ever remember anything ending up on that piece of infield inside Druids after going over the fence (at least not at a meeting I've been at)- it's certainly not somewhere I've ever felt particularly vulnerable....

[KA]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Never realised that was a spectator area-not been since 2005In view of current crowd sizes seen on TV I hardly think there is a demand-save money and metal by just leaving it empty? Did people ever use the bridge or is it just a ad hording

It's usually a fairly busy spot at major meetings.. it's quite a popular area for photographers, partly because, as several people have said, it's been one of the few places you can shoot uninterrupted by the chain-link stuff

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

You accept a level of risk by going to the meeting in the first place - the only way to make it safe is to ban spectators altogether. If there are areas with high fencing and areas without then you can choose what level of risk you think is acceptable. I haven't bothered going to Silverstone for years now because the fencing and large distance from the track make it a totally soulless place - you're so disconnected from the action that you may as well watch it on the tv. It'd be a shame if Brands went the same way.

Get used to more fences and other forms of protection.

The FIA have commissioned a report into safety at tracks after the events at Le Mans and Nurburgring. It will not just be spectators that will find their access restricted but also trackside media too. Expect more fences and red zones, with marshals and other workers being given greater protection too.

I agree about Silverstone and the situation is much worse since the major races are being shifted down to the wretched new pits. Still I am going to qualify for a bus pass soon.

[medius]

Not quite sure I can believe I'm reading a thread about moaning at the improved spectator safety at a track!

And yes, cars can get airborn at that point, without the help from anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuy7IZ74Qn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHowcgn9eDI

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

Get used to more fences and other forms of protection.

The FIA have commissioned a report into safety at tracks after the events at Le Mans and Nurburgring. It will not just be spectators that will find their access restricted but also trackside media too. Expect more fences and red zones, with marshals and other workers being given greater protection too.

I agree about Silverstone and the situation is much worse since the major races are being shifted down to the wretched new pits. Still I am going to qualify for a bus pass soon.

Guess you're right,but this does not hold out much hope for the future.No point in taking a camera if you can't get a decent shot through the fencing? Makes much more sense to stay home and watch on TV which is what I guess most people are doing.I was just watching Mazda MX5 coverage on Motors TV at Brands.Counted 7 people on the spectator banks and the orange seat open stand totally empty!Assuming the fences are necessary they now need to build stands so one can see over them?
BTW: I have already qualified for my bus pass,but can't think of a circuit I can now reach by bus

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

I agree about Silverstone and the situation is much worse since the major races are being shifted down to the wretched new pits. Still I am going to qualify for a bus pass soon.

The one good thing about getting older is that it brings us closer to the point when things we once cared about passionately no longer hold such importance.

I think the FIA should be put in charge of Skiing and all cycling activities, especially mountain biking, with a brief to give 'advice' for climbers as well. (Admittedly, with the possible exception of skiing, participants will only usually kiil and injure themselves undertaking these activities. But what if they should become popular spectator sports? )

Then perhaps the military ...?

I had thought of posting some photos from Brands and Silverstone back in the 60s but thought better of it in case I was accused of causing mental harm to anyone who saw them.

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Guess you're right,but this does not hold out much hope for the future.No point in taking a camera if you can't get a decent shot through the fencing? Makes much more sense to stay home and watch on TV which is what I guess most people are doing.I was just watching Mazda MX5 coverage on Motors TV at Brands.Counted 7 people on the spectator banks and the orange seat open stand totally empty!Assuming the fences are necessary they now need to build stands so one can see over them?
BTW: I have already qualified for my bus pass,but can't think of a circuit I can now reach by bus

Well head on shots through the fences is possible if you can get the lens in direct contact and it helps if it is a 500mm or similar. When I used to shoot ALMS at the ovals reasonable results could be had using that technique. Some folks would spray paint the fence black to take it out of shot. It is also handy on the infield at Daytona Speedway, the few photo holes cut there were always at a Michael Jordan level.

Circuits could help by putting photo holes in the fences to help the paying public follow their hobby. Spa has a few at the last chicane before the pits and very popular they are too. Going to the races live is an experience in itself, sometimes preferable to watching on the box, sometimes not.

The bus reference is a comment on Silverstone, where I am told we will park our cars at the old pits and be ferried to the new Wunder Wing by a few asthmatic double deckers. Just adding hassle and inconvenience to the joy of being at the place. And as a young man, sometime in the last century, I would travel to Brands Hatch by trains and bus.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Guess you're right,but this does not hold out much hope for the future.No point in taking a camera if you can't get a decent shot through the fencing?

If the new fencing at Donington (Redgate) is an example of the expected future standard then spectators will not only be further from the track back across deeper gravel traps or hectares of tarmac, but will be behind crowd control barriers that make visibility, especially with a camera, even more challenging.

Still, I don't suppose the circuit owners and operators are too worried about that since the possible loss of a few tens of ticket sales is hardly likely to force a change of business model.

It is, however, rather ironic that they have to spend so much money to protect people who are conspicuous by their absence on most 'usage' days just so a few yahoo stock car drivers and associated TV money can be accomodated. The TV money of course wants to see crashes. They attract a wider audience.

[dex92]

On another forum a user wrote to Msv and the good news no more fencing is planned for druids at them moment and they maybe putting in photography holes like clearways. You can always come down to Lydden Hill no high fencing to get in your way and you can see the whole track where ever you stand

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by grantp

but will be behind crowd control barriers
.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Hehe.

Well, how many people make up a crowd these days? About 10? 15 for a riot?

Mind you if you think BTCC or the bigger bike meetings ...

They give little Johnnie something to play on when he gets bored about 5 minutes after arrival.

I suppose the correct term is probably something like anti-crush barriers. Just a ludicrous of course. The point it that the old ones were there so stop people cruching up against the fence and were about 2 or 3 feet from the debris fence. The new ones are somewhat further back so there is no chance of getting a camera lens close enough to the fence to limit it obstruction. Plus the fences seem a little higher so you can't back up the bank and attempt to shoot over the top. Or at least you can but the opportunities are very limited unless you are about 8ft tall. You also end up far more exposed to prevailing winds (no sniggering at the back please) and so it's difficult to keep the lens under control especially when you need a longer lens to get a half decent frame fill.

Thats for Donington and a few other places. Brands will have its own versions of the drawbacks.

Interestingly at Silverstone there are quite a few section where the traditional media photographer location between the barrier and the bank/fencing is extremely narrow and in some places so narrow as to be unavailable. Presumably that is intentional and it did occur to me that once in that gap there was nowhere to go should an incident develop close by.

But then we are only talking about cars going around some tarmac so if snapping them becomes more difficult than it's worth I guess it won't matter much it we stop doing it.

[dusty]

More fences, less spectators! Who cares? spectators ( like myself) are fed up of paying more and more to watch less and less. I would not like to go back to the bad old days of a bit of rope to protect us but when we cannot see anything and then are asked to dig deep for £30 for a couple of tickets for a crap view we vote with our feet ( and wallets!)

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by Samoan Attorney

Get used to more fences and other forms of protection.

The FIA have commissioned a report into safety at tracks after the events at Le Mans and Nurburgring. It will not just be spectators that will find their access restricted but also trackside media too. Expect more fences and red zones, with marshals and other workers being given greater protection too.

I agree about Silverstone and the situation is much worse since the major races are being shifted down to the wretched new pits. Still I am going to qualify for a bus pass soon.

Spot on! Again no-one wants to go back to the old days but in the end it will lead to the end of the sport.