[Tech Issue] Pirelli-The Tyre Story..

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Trouble for Pirelli is, or was, back in the summer, was the fact that their tyres were disintegrating left right and centre yet, because Lotus and Force India could make the tyres last , Pirelli couldn't get 100% approval to make them safer for every other team.

And this is the problem with F1 today. You can't change any regulation during the season without 100% agreement of the teams. The teams shouldn't be involved in the regulations.

No one would want F1 to change regulations all the time on a whim but when there is safety involved it should just be done. Look at all the changes made after Imola 1994 to the circuits, even on a temporary basis.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

And this is the problem with F1 today. You can't change any regulation during the season without 100% agreement of the teams. The teams shouldn't be involved in the regulations.

No one would want F1 to change regulations all the time on a whim but when there is safety involved it should just be done. Look at all the changes made after Imola 1994 to the circuits, even on a temporary basis.

Good post. Changes to make any part of an F1 car safer should not be open to debate. However, if it can be shown that some other part on one particular car is causing problems for another part of the car (let say, the tyres), then it may be the case that the onus is on that particular cars designers to fix a problem with that particular car. You can't just point a finger at a tyre failure and say that it is totally the tyre manufacturers fault that it failed.

But I do hope that Pirelli go ultra conservative, so that we can get a better idea of which team has turned up with the better car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The Bridgestone/Firestone must be of a stronger construction given the loads on the banking and we all know how catastrophic a failure on ovals can be. The point is, Pirelli could quite easily make tyres that reliable, but they haven't been asked to. In fact, I should imagine that they are the first company in sporting history to be asked not to have made something that will last as long as possible.

Like FI the tyres are meant to last a certain number of laps before they drop off and the driver has to pit and also like F1, Indy Car run a softer compound option tyre, something they both adopted from the now defunct Champ Car series. I just wonder if the tyre situation in F1 has been over complicated by the use of so many more different compounds?

[bjohnsonsmith]

This is an interesting piece regarding last season's the Pirelli situation from Adrian Newey.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111974

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

And this is the problem with F1 today. You can't change any regulation during the season without 100% agreement of the teams. The teams shouldn't be involved in the regulations.

No one would want F1 to change regulations all the time on a whim but when there is safety involved it should just be done. Look at all the changes made after Imola 1994 to the circuits, even on a temporary basis.

Who are the FIA to push through new regulations for the sake of safety, if they are most responsible for the unsafe situation to arise?
In case of a carte blanche for the FIA for the sake of safety, abuse of power is obviously far from unthinkable.

[Zico]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is an interesting piece regarding last season's the Pirelli situation from Adrian Newey.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111974

Interesting interview.
Had the tyres remained unchanged I'm pretty sure Red Bull would still have gone on to take both championships last year.
Anyone else think Mr Newey is being just a tad modest ?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Who are the FIA to push through new regulations for the sake of safety, if they are most responsible for the unsafe situation to arise?
In case of a carte blanche for the FIA for the sake of safety, abuse of power is obviously far from unthinkable.

True to a degree.
We had years of F1 where you could run a whole race on one tyre and it didn't fail. The present rules and the way tyres are supposed to 'spice up the racing' is just an artificial nonsense so lay the blame for the mess where it belongs, not on Pirelli's doorstep

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

We had years of F1 where you could run a whole race on one tyre and it didn't fail.

It's not that difficult for them to do that. You could have probably done a whole season on some of them. Not that anyone should be particularly interested in them doing that.

It's much more difficult to try to make 4 tyre compounds that do a set number of laps for 20 different circuits, and all of them with unstable climatic conditions.

[321Go]

Pirelli here to stay!

http://www.fia.com/news/pirelli-supp...xt-three-years

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Pirelli here to stay!

http://www.fia.com/news/pirelli-supp...xt-three-years

Here's Autosport's take.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112150

[chillibowl]

From the FIA press release:

2) Each team will dedicate one of their eight days of in-season testing, as prescribed in the 2014 sporting regulations, exclusively to tyre testing. This means that during each of the eight days of in-season testing, at least one team – and up to a maximum of two – will be concentrating on tyre testing along with Pirelli’s engineers.


When did 8 days of in season testing get added?

[Knowlesy]

Another three years of dumb spec tyres.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Another three years of dumb spec tyres.

Just so inspiring!

3 more years of JEV's cauliflowers!

[Marbot]

Tyres are in the news again.

"And the tyres are just too hard. I don't understand why they have to be so conservative. I think we can at least have a tyre with decent grip situation."

Will Pirelli get ridiculed for now producing tyres that are too "conservative" ?

Probably, IMO.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112403

Also lots of stuff in there for discussion in other threads.

[JeremySmith]

I doubt that the focus will be on Pirelli this year, it will be on the racing and that is where it should be...

Pirelli should just provide a product that they believe in and the teams need to get on with it ..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Initially the focus is going to be on the relaibility of the turbo engines and the new noses but with new complaints about Pirelli's tyres now being too hard, their problems don't seem to be going away anytime soon.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Initially the focus is going to be on the relaibility of the turbo engines and the new noses but with new complaints about Pirelli's tyres now being too hard, their problems don't seem to be going away anytime soon.

I really hope that Pirelli continues to supply the "too hard" tyres BJ.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I really hope that Pirelli continues to supply the "too hard" tyres BJ.

But won't they do as they have done previously and produce a whole range of tyres, like medium and supersoft compounds, with all those wonderful colored logos on the wall?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But won't they do as they have done previously and produce a whole range of tyres, like medium and supersoft compounds, with all those wonderful colored logos on the wall?

Probably will.

What I was hoping though is that the basic racing tyre is hard and will stand up to a degree of ragging. Hopefully the other tyre is a quick soft good for about a third of the distance, it will then at least produce a balance between the tyre life experts and those that live slightly beyond the grip level like Lewis. The racing will then at least have the ability to get interesting.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Probably will.

What I was hoping though is that the basic racing tyre is hard and will stand up to a degree of ragging. Hopefully the other tyre is a quick soft good for about a third of the distance, it will then at least produce a balance between the tyre life experts and those that live slightly beyond the grip level like Lewis. The racing will then at least have the ability to get interesting.

Though the basic race tyre is the harder of the two compounds at any given GP, it isn't always the hardest compound available from the range produced by Pirelli. I still think they should reduce the types and numbers of compounds to just hard, medium and soft. Having too many compounds just overly complicates things.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Though the basic race tyre is the harder of the two compounds at any given GP, it isn't always the hardest compound available from the range produced by Pirelli. I still think they should reduce the types and numbers of compounds to just hard, medium and soft. Having too many compounds just overly complicates things.

I agree with you BJ. Use the same tyres at all races, if they can mandate something as banal as gear ratios they should certainly be able to simplify the tyres!

[wnut]

http://www.pitpass.com/50999/Pirelli...-test-schedule

About time! Could do with more though.

[chillibowl]

its a good first step in getting back to basics. lots of reasons why viewership is declining but i have to think that the uninspiring nature of CFD and wind tunnel tests away from the public has a part to play. people want to see their sports teams practice and get better. its a crucial element to all sport imo.

so adjoining the tests with races will means less money being spent and that transport costs can be shared which is good.

and if their are lots of problems early in the season the teams will get a chance to fix those problems before the bulk of the European season gets under way which is also good.

question and this is for sure the wrong thread for it but what are the engine/drivetrain rules during the tests?

[wnut]

I have really and truly had Pirelli in lumps and marbles too!

Martin Brundle's column following China

"The smoggy greyness of Shanghai was no match for the glittering bejewelled cars under the Bahrain lights. The perfectly judged mixture of tyre compounds in terms of grip and degradation two weeks ago became tyres which fell apart too quickly and covered the track in a carpet of rubber marbles, thereby preventing some overtaking opportunities.
Those same tyres meant that following in close formation in key corners was very difficult and therefore even the DRS low drag rear wings couldn't bring the cars into close combat."

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/...bastian-vettel

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I have really and truly had Pirelli in lumps and marbles too!

Martin Brundle's column following China

"The smoggy greyness of Shanghai was no match for the glittering bejewelled cars under the Bahrain lights. The perfectly judged mixture of tyre compounds in terms of grip and degradation two weeks ago became tyres which fell apart too quickly and covered the track in a carpet of rubber marbles, thereby preventing some overtaking opportunities.
Those same tyres meant that following in close formation in key corners was very difficult and therefore even the DRS low drag rear wings couldn't bring the cars into close combat."

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/...bastian-vettel

Why didn't Pirelli stick with the tyres they used in Bahrain, or is that to obvious a question?