[Tech Issue] Pirelli-The Tyre Story..

[Marbot]

It is what is it. The Pirelli tyres provide the two or three stop strategies that they were mandated to. They were accused of being too conservative with their tyres over the last few races of last season and so they have addressed that problem. There would still be teams unhappy with the Pirelli tyres if they only took one tyre spec to the races that had a very wide operating window and lasted for the entire weekend.

You will have noticed that no one is backing Red Bull's claims that the tyres need to be doing anything other than what they are doing, because if Pirelli had shown up with the 2012 spec tyres for the 2013 season, then it's very likely we would be looking at another season that had Red Bull written all over it. Pirelli have already played into Red Bull's hands by taking the medium tyre to the Bahrain GP instead of the soft tyre. It won't be too long before people say that the tyres are too conservative again.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It is what is it. The Pirelli tyres provide the two or three stop strategies that they were mandated to. They were accused of being too conservative with their tyres over the last few races of last season and so they have addressed that problem. There would still be teams unhappy with the Pirelli tyres if they only took one tyre spec to the races that had a very wide operating window and lasted for the entire weekend.

You will have noticed that no one is backing Red Bull's claims that the tyres need to be doing anything other than what they are doing, because if Pirelli had shown up with the 2012 spec tyres for the 2013 season, then it's very likely we would be looking at another season that had Red Bull written all over it. Pirelli have already played into Red Bull's hands by taking the medium tyre to the Bahrain GP instead of the soft tyre. It won't be too long before people say that the tyres are too conservative again.

Spot on.

[jsTrecu]

So basically it does not matter how bad the tyres are, teams think it is OK to suffer punctures and delamination as long as RBR struggles with degradation more than the others ?
They can't build a better car so even if they don't like this year's tyres they will support them because it's the easiest way to compete for the championship.

Nobody is happy with these pirellis in my opinion... I think it's just a matter of "hey look, RBR is struggling more than us, please let's keep these shi*** tyres, please, please."

[Knowlesy]

Supplying duff tyres just to hold back a team doing a great job.

The F1 world championship: top level sport at its finest.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Supplying duff tyres just to hold back a team doing a great job.

The F1 world championship: top level sport at its finest.

Much better to watch 60 laps of cars following each other in grid order.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It is what is it...

which of course very different to saying Pirelli are doing a good job.

its all well and good to say the teams told them to do this but i find it hard to rationalize the fact that teams spend a few hundred million and then ask for an unknown variable to become the primary performance differentiator.

certainly FOM want this because its more 'exciting' but i suspect the teams would prefer all outside parts to be far more predictable.

Originally Posted by MarkG

Much better to watch 60 laps of cars following each other in grid order.

perhaps its more entertaining but is it sporting? thats the question for me and further complicated because explaining what i think is sporting is equally as subjective as describing what i find entertaining.

[Greem]

Someone agrees with me (and Marbot):

http://www.darrenheath.com/season/20...d-old-days-now

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Greem

Someone agrees with me (and Marbot):

http://www.darrenheath.com/season/20...d-old-days-now

Thank god for the difference of opinions !

[Greem]

You don't have to thank me, Bononi

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Greem

You don't have to thank me, Bononi

Nah, I must !

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by MarkG

Much better to watch 60 laps of cars following each other in grid order.

I agree, and for the Olympics sprinting the Olympics should make Nike or Puma the "Official Shoe of the Olympics" with shoes that fall apart at quarter distance even in 100m sprints. That way we could make the racing more exciting and put emphasis on foot blister management instead of skill, speed, or training. Plus we could stop the boring domination of the sport by countries such as Jamaica. It's worked so well for Formula 1 (never mind the falling worldwide viewing figures and attendance) and would easily benefit other sports, Formula 1 is a sport after all, isn't it?

Win Win situation.

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

I agree, and for the Olympics sprinting the Olympics should make Nike or Puma the "Official Shoe of the Olympics" with shoes that fall apart at quarter distance even in 100m sprints. That way we could make the racing more exciting and put emphasis on foot blister management instead of skill, speed, or training. Plus we could stop the boring domination of the sport by countries such as Jamaica. It's worked so well for Formula 1 (never mind the falling worldwide viewing figures and attendance) and would easily benefit other sports, Formula 1 is a sport after all, isn't it?

Win Win situation.

Be careful what you wish for. I heard a rumour that MarkG & Greem have inquired about forming a consortium led by Marbot to buy thousands of shares of Nike & Puma stock so they can be more objective when commenting on the Olympics...

[Greem]

Rubbish!

Adidas all the way

[Born Racer]

No way should they change them now or people are going to call Red Bull conspiracy, whether there is one or not. It's good to see RBR's aero advantage slightly negated (aero sucks) and people will get suspicious, what with Ecclestone and Horner getting on so well and Ecclestone and Vettel getting on so well..

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

I agree, and for the Olympics sprinting the Olympics should make Nike or Puma the "Official Shoe of the Olympics" with shoes that fall apart at quarter distance even in 100m sprints. That way we could make the racing more exciting and put emphasis on foot blister management instead of skill, speed, or training. Plus we could stop the boring domination of the sport by countries such as Jamaica. It's worked so well for Formula 1 (never mind the falling worldwide viewing figures and attendance) and would easily benefit other sports, Formula 1 is a sport after all, isn't it?

Win Win situation.

Unlike running, motor racing is just as much about the car as the driver. Management of tires and fuel is part of skillful driving.

[andy666]

Originally Posted by Scooter185

Unlike running, motor racing is just as much about the car as the driver. Management of tires and fuel is part of skillful driving.

I agree , but when the drivers are only pushing at 75-80% for almost all the race I think the tyre management is taking over .

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by andy666

I agree , but when the drivers are only pushing at 75-80% for almost all the race I think the tyre management is taking over .

Unless the cars are filled up with enough fuel to be guaranteed not to run out and on tires designed to go the distance (actually past full race distance) drivers cannont push 100% of the time

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Scooter185

Unlike running, motor racing is just as much about the car as the driver. Management of tires and fuel is part of skillful driving.

In running, the man is the 'car', through training, physical condition and sometimes even traits and genetic characteristics from birth. The shoe is like it's 'tire' as it is crucial to keeping each thing on the track/road.

Tire management has always been a part of motorsport as you mention, however it is rarely the key characteristic and main focus of the sport. I have no issue with tire wear, but when it becomes like China where you cannot RACE because of it, it is not a sport but a joke. And when it comes to safety being compromised with Massa's tire issues, laugh all you want, but the FIA's rules to produce more 'excitement' have led to a type of racing that after warning, claimed human lives and caused injuries in the past. Particularly one season that I'm sure everybody wants to forget.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by andy666

I agree , but when the drivers are only pushing at 75-80% for almost all the race I think the tyre management is taking over .

Prost was recognised as the master of this kind of driving back in the 80's and 90's. It was not really any different then to what it is now, except that we now know lots more about tyres, brakes, engines, etc, to make that kind of driving a thing of the past. So, it should be recognised that if we only knew now what we knew then about tyres, brakes, aerodynamics, etc, then we wouldn't need Pirelli to come up with tyres to improve the 'show'.

The teams seem to be very unwilling to let go of, for example, aerodynamics as a means of making the cars go faster, and so you have the ridiculous situation of having to find other ways to not only slow down the cars, but also to try to make them easier to overtake.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Scooter185

Unlike running, motor racing is just as much about the car as the driver. Management of tires and fuel is part of skillful driving.

That's racing, in F1 the tyres are made to last a few laps and management is simply "conservative"

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

And when it comes to safety being compromised with Massa's tire issues, laugh all you want, but the FIA's rules to produce more 'excitement' have led to a type of racing that after warning, claimed human lives and caused injuries in the past. Particularly one season that I'm sure everybody wants to forget.

Massa's tyres were cut by debris. The Pirelli tyres are not inherently dangerous tyres. The last inherently dangerous tyre we had in F1 was Michelin's 2005 Indy GP tyre. It failed at high speed and with no warning. It happened because a lighter tyre (and therefore a tyre with less structural integrity) is a better 'F1' tyre, which is what you want if you're trying to beat another tyre manufacturer that's in competition with you.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Yep, both tires were cut by debris. Paul Hembery told me that Chilton's delamination at Malaysia was caused by falling space debris, seems to make sense as anything he says is automatically true.

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

In running, the man is the 'car', through training, physical condition and sometimes even traits and genetic characteristics from birth. The shoe is like it's 'tire' as it is crucial to keeping each thing on the track/road.

Tire management has always been a part of motorsport as you mention, however it is rarely the key characteristic and main focus of the sport. I have no issue with tire wear, but when it becomes like China where you cannot RACE because of it, it is not a sport but a joke. And when it comes to safety being compromised with Massa's tire issues, laugh all you want, but the FIA's rules to produce more 'excitement' have led to a type of racing that after warning, claimed human lives and caused injuries in the past. Particularly one season that I'm sure everybody wants to forget.

I dont entirely disagree with you, and the tires certainly have flaws especially with marbles. I just think Pirelli is getting more flak than they deserve, moreso because they're just doing what they were asked.

The tire situation can be fixed in the future at least, much perferable to what happened to the mulsanne straight

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Yep, both tires were cut by debris. Paul Hembery told me that Chilton's delamination at Malaysia was caused by falling space debris, seems to make sense as anything he says is automatically true.

And don't forget Lewis' tyres cut by "a piece of metal", a meteor perhaps?

BTW - RBR isn't the only unhappy team:

http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motors...ry/106572.html

Nor the only ones complaining about all of the emphasis on tyres:

Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche's head of research and development on Proche's decision to not enter F1: "We are a sportscar company," Hatz said at the Shanghai motor show. "Porsche has always lived for the transfer of racing to production cars. For that reason it was clear two or three years ago that we had to be back in high-level motorsport, and it was a choice between top-flight sportscars or Formula One.

"But the final decision was the only logical one. F1 was an alternative, but the road relevance is not there. Also, there is a lot of publicity around politics and tyres, but not so much about the engines and chassis.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Spritle

And don't forget Lewis' tyres cut by "a piece of metal", a meteor perhaps?

BTW - RBR isn't the only unhappy team:

http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motors...ry/106572.html

Nor the only ones complaining about all of the emphasis on tyres:

Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche's head of research and development on Proche's decision to not enter F1: "We are a sportscar company," Hatz said at the Shanghai motor show. "Porsche has always lived for the transfer of racing to production cars. For that reason it was clear two or three years ago that we had to be back in high-level motorsport, and it was a choice between top-flight sportscars or Formula One.

"But the final decision was the only logical one. F1 was an alternative, but the road relevance is not there. Also, there is a lot of publicity around politics and tyres, but not so much about the engines and chassis.

Ouch !