BRSCC call E.G.M.

[greenamex2]

Redshoes - Most cars can race in a number of series with either a small number of changes or the driver being prepared to be a little less competitive than where he/she was.

I am not saying it isn't difficult but it is certainly not impossible and you probably will not have to go to the extreme of changing your car.

With the reduction in average number of cars per series most series are becoming more 'generic' in their rules to allow cars to come across from other series, even if only for the odd race.

In the Toyo Modified Production Saloons we are looking at removing some of the more pointless rules from way back that are no longer relevant with todays cars and race technology availability/cost.

Many other series are either doing something similar or have totally changed their rules to achieve the same goals.

Should be interesting to see who survives and who doesn't.

As long as I have somewhere to run my car I'll be happy.

[JR Ewing]

Depends what you run I suppose.
If you have an FF1600 you either want to race in the 15 cars covered by 5 seconds of the BRSCC champs or the 3 cars covered by 2 laps of the Monoposto 1600 class.

[Barny]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Depends what you run I suppose.
If you have an FF1600 you either want to race in the 15 cars covered by 5 seconds of the BRSCC champs or the 3 cars covered by 2 laps of the Monoposto 1600 class.

Correct, the BRSCC do have a monoply on FF1600.

[JustinDawkins]

Lol, Typical Ewing coment!

[redshoes]

Originally posted by Denis Bassom
Redshoes - Most cars can race in a number of series with either a small number of changes or the driver being prepared to be a little less competitive than where he/she was.

Probably true more for single seaters than saloons.

For example, would cars from Mighty/Super Mighty Minis, Fiestas, Super Coupes, Porsche 924 or VSR go. Britcar is a possibility for some of those, assuming that is you want to go endurance racing. Failing that it's regional sports/saloons or winter open saloons. Hardly the same thing is it.

FForders and the like probably have it a little easier but as you'll see from Barny's comments some have resorted to selling cars to do so.

For any club to adopt a "if you don't like it, bog off" attitude is appalling.

[greenamex2]

redshoes - Every category you mentioned would fit in as is in at least the Toyo Tyres Modified Production Saloons with a couple of mods/consessions.

There are of course other national series (Classic Thunder springs to mind if they wanted to stay on slicks) as well as the 'local' ones. These are increasingly popular and some, such as the Europa series, aren't particularly local.

[Tim Falce]

As for the cost of entries and race series registration people can't be THAT concerned or they would go elsewhere!!!

I race in a Jaguar Entusiasts club series, they have to use whatever organisers they can get races with. Unfortunately we end up doing some with the BRSCC, so being able to walk away is not always an option.

[R59]

Firstly, Rod Birley for BRSCC Directorship!
In all the years I have known Rod, he's always been an enthusiastic supporter of motorsport, for the sake of motorsport, not for the sake of shareholders etc...

Secondly, I suggest that those of us that can, appear at the meeting and voice our opinions. If I can, I'll be there. It could be a new start for the BRSCC which, in the time that I've been racing, has decimated three well supported championships due to rule changes that I know of (Road Saloons, Super Road Saloons, and the now extinct Thundersaloons). For far too long, the BRSCC has held it's AGM's in the hallowed quarters of places such as "The Brewery", and other haunts that the masses don't attend. To be accountable to their membership, they need to be more open, and listen to the people who pay their wages. Motor racing in the UK has been pushing itself into a corner for far too long. What's needed is better organisation at meetings, better PR, to get the bums on seats in the grandstands. Not only is it our 'addiction' (as drivers), but it's an entertainment that needs better promotion. The BRSCC should take a leaf out of the Rockingham book. Make each race meeting an event, something for all the family.

And on that subject, since when did Robbie Williams PAY to appear in concert? The Stock Car boys don't pay entry fees! They get a share of the gate. But if you don't promote the meeting properly, nobody comes through the gate... swings and roundabouts.

There are so many reasons why motor racing is rotten, and it's time that some of these things were sorted out.

Bottom line, there are too many championships, and so many poorly supported ones. The BRSCC has to shoulder the blame for quite a few of them. For example, we have Mighty Mini's, Super Mighty Mini's, to run up against the BRDC's Mini Se7en's, and Miglias. WHY? It's bloody pointless, just some persons ego trip!

I shall cease ranting until such time that I can think of more things to rant about.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter, your assistance has been invaluable.

Rob.

[dogsbody]

Go for it Rob!

I would just ask that you get all the answers you want before you (or anyone else) votes in favour of reducing the number of people on the Board and thus the influence of the members via the Centres. Be clear about the agenda that is following behind this reduction and be clear it is what YOU want, not what the Directors who will be left in charge want. They are making this change (if it happens) by stealth and without real consultation, what is their next move going to be?

I can't make the meeting, but if more people like Rob attend, asking the right (hard) questions then I have confidence in their decision at the end of the day. It's just a pity proxy / postal votes aren't allowed...

[R59]

The questions I would ask are:
1. Details of the need to reduce the number of directors to 6 from 12.
2. What costs are involved in making the changes.
3. What expected savings in operating costs - and their impact on the level of entry fees levied on competitors.
4. When will competitors see the benefits of this restructure in terms of reduced charges.
5. Will the changes eventually lead to a stagnation in the membership fee for Racing Members, which are nearly double that of the BARC, until such a time that they are comparable?
6. Can the board guarantee that there will be no dilution in the individual member's rights as laid down in the membership regulations?

Anyone got any other hard questions?

Rob.

[Chris Y]

Originally posted by racing59
For example, we have Mighty Mini's, Super Mighty Mini's, to run up against the BRDC's Mini Se7en's, and Miglias. WHY? It's bloody pointless, just some persons ego trip!

I'll just pick you up on that point. Miglias and Se7ens are very highly modified Minis. Carbon fibre, lots of engine mods, lots of money. Mightys are a low cost championship - modifications are limited. Two completely different series, not really in competition. A bit like comparing Road Saloons with Toyo Mod Prods - same cars perhaps, but totally different regs.

Both sets of classes attract a big entry, so why moan about them? There are other championships that regularly produce small grids. Bottom line is that Minis are very popular, and a lot of people want to race them.

[R59]

Originally posted by Chris Y
I'll just pick you up on that point. Miglias and Se7ens are very highly modified Minis. Carbon fibre, lots of engine mods, lots of money. Mightys are a low cost championship - modifications are limited. Two completely different series, not really in competition. A bit like comparing Road Saloons with Toyo Mod Prods - same cars perhaps, but totally different regs.

Both sets of classes attract a big entry, so why moan about them? There are other championships that regularly produce small grids. Bottom line is that Minis are very popular, and a lot of people want to race them.

To run at the front of either series costs a packet when you have it run for you by a pro outfit, (or you do it yourself "properly") with a test pre-race day etc... the actual cost of the machinery is neither here nor there. To build a car from scratch costs less in the mightys, but Super Mightys are far from low cost.

If you buy a ready to run car, and are happy to be midfield, ie: just really glad to be out there, there's not a lot in it. "A series" engines are cheap as fish & chips to tune, and Roversport, or whatever they are called these days, offer cheap parts to registered competitors. Do they do that for the Mighty/Super Mighty Mini's??

Bottom line is, there were two championships for Mini's in existence, and there is no need for another one. Anyone wanting to run someting else should have been pointed at one of the "catch-all" championships. They could have approached the Road Saloon Register and asked for a 1300/1400cc class in the Slick50 Road Saloons, which would have been perfect fit, both for the Mini's, and the Road Saloons.

This is just one example of what's wrong in the BRSCC.

Going back to Road Saloons and Toyo Modprods - as a competitor in the latter, and former member of the former organisation, there is history here. The Road Saloon Register ran Slick50's and Toyo Super Road Saloons, the BRSCC meddled with the rules in an effort to modernise the series and make it more "marketable" with more modern cars making up the bulk of the field, but it backfired when the cars didn't materialise, and the existing competitors voted with their feet. In the end, Super Road Saloons amalgamated with ModProds which have/had similar rules, and in the end, Supers became extinct. ModProds is struggling following it's heyday in the early/mid 1990's.

There is great dilution of championships, with the only glimmer of sense in some ways being things like the Super Coupe Cup which catches the old bangers that ran in various previously well supported one make championships, and throws them onto the same grid.

Not so many years back, I wrote to the MSA on this very subject, suggesting that many of our championships be chopped, and that they implement the blue book classifications, for saloons, there would be Production Saloons, Modified Saloons, and Special Saloons. Simple, three catch-all championships, which could be regionalised, but allow competitors the option of going for a national prize by competing in the different regions a certain number of times, with a finals day held to find the national champion. You could also have a good old Formula Libre race for "anything with four wheels" that wants to have a go, which doesn't fit into the three main saloon categories.

Back to the real matter at hand. Will the streamlining of the BRSCC result in a better leaner BRSCC running fewer meetings with bigger grids at a lower cost to the competitor, or will it lead to the further demise of what was once the biggest club in the UK. Will 6 directors be better than 12? What will those savings really be?


Rob.

[dogsbody]

Good questions Rob.

If I may suggest a few more hard ones for your list?

7. Where has all the money gone? If you add up the Centre accounts they are owed jointly probably in the region of £1,000,000 + by HQ, yet I doubt the Club accounts reflect that.

8. What are the tangible benefits of these proposed changes for the non-racing members (officials & spectators)?

9. Will all the remaining Directors undertake to step down and apply for re-election at the 2004 AGM to enable the membership to vote in the Directors they want?

10. Will the Board undertake to make the necessary rule changes prior to the AGM 2004 to permit proxy and postal voting by members?

No doubt others will come up with more, I just hope you get the opportunity to ask them!

Cheers.

[Stephen Green]

Will the club be looking at reducing overheads. By that I mean levels of staffing, office space and location, expenses when attending meetings outside those of the centre. Like any business, if times are hard, then hard measures have to be taken to rectify the problem(s).

[goforit500]

The bottom line here, IMHO, that the BRSCC, whilst perhaps trying to do the right thing have managed to disenfranchise the members by calling a closed EGM at a rotten time and denying the membership a voice by way of proxy or postal vote.

That the board has neglected to inform the members of the reasons for the change, except for vague possibilities is arrogant and displays the true measure of our board for us members.

I want to see the reasons and the cost justifications for a start and the undertaking that centralisation of services will NOT reduce the service that we recieve from the ever patient and efficient competition secretaries up and down the country.

If I find that my car will indeed fit to race on a Friday evening, I need to be able to get on the blower and see if I can get an entry - Not talk to an answerphone that will be next seen on Monday.

What is also interesting is that the BRSCC have introduced a Euro Saloon series that will directly compete with a good number of its' own championships....Barking or what ??

Or maybe they are hoping to attract cars from other races on the day to do another race at a much reduced entry fee.....Maybe £50 ?? Yeah....Right....

[greenamex2]

"What is also interesting is that the BRSCC have introduced a Euro Saloon series that will directly compete with a good number of its' own championships....Barking or what ??"

And several others in other clubs to a greater or lesser degree.

[madgriffin]

Having just read dogsbody about the state of the club i am amazed that the clubs rescue units are used to make profit for the club. This i just can not believe at the Very least rescue units should be cost neutral. At a meeting several years ago one of the reasons given for the increase in entry fees was the cost of providing rescue units. Now we are told the rescue units have not only to pay there way but bring profits into the club as well.
Just how low can this Club get?

[Rod Birley]

Thanks for the "support" Rob (racing 59) but I feel I would not be welcomed by some people. However, the points coming across show that the ordinary members have some strong feelings on this EGM, much as I suspected. Thank you for all your replies and let us hope common sense prevails.

[Stephen Green]

Madgriffin, welcome to Ten-Tenths.

I may be wrong, but I think the income derived from the rescue units comes from fees charged when they attend track days, test days or, are hired out to other clubs. I don't think the income is specific to BRSCC meetings where the rescue units are provided by and for the club.

[stroller]

I think you are right Stephen on the incomes.

Unfortunately Madgriffin seems to have a "downer" on the BRSCC seeing his other postings! - Nothing constructive just a few snide comments

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Madgriffin, welcome to Ten-Tenths.

I may be wrong, but I think the income derived from the rescue units comes from fees charged when they attend track days, test days or, are hired out to other clubs. I don't think the income is specific to BRSCC meetings where the rescue units are provided by and for the club.

Stephen you are correct here. Rescue Units are able to charge other clubs for the hiring out of the vehicle and the crew.

[madgriffin]

Stroller Firstly i think i have the right to be a bit cynical towards the BRSCC. You will have to admit we have had more than our fair share of championships that have just not taken off. Look at the Focus Cup this year, what about the the cost of the eurocars, the two failed attempts at a British F3000 championship. Need I go on.

Also is this not the same club that moved a meeting to one of the busiest weekends in the year and then wonder why they could'nt get enough marshals.

It just seems to me that they do not listen.

[madgriffin]

Back to my original post The club does use it's rescue units to make a profit. Am I the only one to think this is wrong? As I said earlier surely a rescue unit should at the least "cost neutral"

As for not having anything consrtuctive to say how can you be constructive towards a club who seems to be doing it's best to bring in major changes firstly without consulting it's various centres and by definition half the existing directors. Then holds a E.G.M. in London thus making it very hard for a lot of members to attend. As dogsbody has already said there is no postal or proxy vote. Please tell me when I get the chance to put my oponions apart through forums like this.

[Stephen Green]

madgriffin, as I said in my post above, the rescue units are 'hired out' to cover track days and other motorsport events run by clubs that don't have their own units. I think you will find the same thing happens to BARC and 750 MC rescue units. The BRSCC do not charge their own centres for the use of rescue units.

[RTH]

Sounds like the first really positive move for a long time and very long overdue , lets hope they mean it and do make huge inroads in to costs.

If entry fees had gone up in line with the retail price index over the last 35 years they would be half what they currently are - and that ought to be a target - a return to unpaid after hours club officials and no frills membership and meetings ? It's a simple law of economics "The lower the price - the more you sell " Which is how Tesco got where it is today