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Old 20 Feb 2019, 16:52 (Ref:3885599)   #151
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A Kimi fan, perchance?

Edit- I would add that I’ll be as happy as anyone to see something other than a Merc or Ferrari winning this season....

But I’ll reserve judgement for the moment!

Last edited by Mike Bell; 20 Feb 2019 at 17:13.
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 17:34 (Ref:3885608)   #152
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I might be a little bit of a Kimi fan, but I always base my conclusions on facts.
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 17:48 (Ref:3885609)   #153
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Kvyat to win a Grand Prix then!
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 17:53 (Ref:3885610)   #154
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More importantly....rather than discussing the woes of Williams....

Kimi has topped Ferrari's times that everyone has been raving about. Everyone says testing is early days and means nothing, but I believe this is NOT the case. Kimi's time being on top for day 3 equates to being on top of the podium this season.
sure those TESTtimes really matter a lot: I'm sure Kvyat will be champion for Toro Rosso this season
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 18:35 (Ref:3885617)   #155
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Kvyat to win a Grand Prix then!
.... and then get fired. Thats the way it works with him isn't it. Do well in a race , get fired.

Testing schmesting.

I'll believe it when Kvyat and Kimi are 1-2 in P3 at Melbourne.
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 18:46 (Ref:3885622)   #156
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F1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridF1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
OMG, I guess I jumped the gun too soon before the day was out! A new archrival has emerged!
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 21:18 (Ref:3885640)   #157
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Still the times from the Alfa are encouraging for the season ahead
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Old 21 Feb 2019, 11:30 (Ref:3885743)   #158
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Gary Anderson mentioned on Autosport that, Williams's late arrival aside, there don't seem to be any fundamental handling issues for any cars and it got me thinking that such is the level of CFD and CAD these days that teams arrive at pre-season testing closer to perfection than ever. Not that we need to lavish more pladits on Mercedes, but this does serve to underline how their margin to their rivals last year was impressive, given how it is difficult for teams to steal a march on competitors like in the past.

Perhaps the relative rules stability will ensure an ever bigger scramble for the midfield positions this year: there could be virtually nothing separating them.
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Old 21 Feb 2019, 15:48 (Ref:3885775)   #159
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Gary Anderson mentioned on Autosport that, Williams's late arrival aside, there don't seem to be any fundamental handling issues for any cars and it got me thinking that such is the level of CFD and CAD these days that teams arrive at pre-season testing closer to perfection than ever. Not that we need to lavish more pladits on Mercedes, but this does serve to underline how their margin to their rivals last year was impressive, given how it is difficult for teams to steal a march on competitors like in the past.

Perhaps the relative rules stability will ensure an ever bigger scramble for the midfield positions this year: there could be virtually nothing separating them.
First... I have to say that I have watched some of the Autosport videos and while I have much respect for his career, Gary Anderson tends to get on my nerves. He seems to focus on things like small driver errors in testing and the extrapolate that into bigger problems (that may not be real). But I guess that is what they pay him to do.

As to your comments.. I both agree and disagree. As to what I agree with, I think the broadly the cars and the concepts behind making something generally "quick" are very well known. So they can probably show up with a totally new car and have decently good idea of setups to try on day #1. The ratio of art to science continues to move more and more into the science direction.

What I disagree with is that given the extreme level of competition you have teams implementing complex aero solutions and some teams continue to get it right and others get it wrong. I think that a majority of those who "get it right" likely broadly understand "why" it works and can reproduce the effects year in and out (not that it doesn't take work to do so). The rest, may "think" they know why specific concepts work, but in reality can't fully replicate the promise on the track. Or it works one year, but not the next and they are clueless as to why that happened.

Take Williams and even McLaren as examples. They clearly had specific aero strategies that at the start of the season they "thought" it would work. Then when it doesn't how do you switch from something that your "design numbers" says should work, but the on track performance doesn't prove it out. You have to figure out where you screwed up. You have to question and adjust your prior "knowledge". And that is hard.

As to rules stability, I think stable rules on the power units have allowed Ferrari, Renault and Honda to make ongoing and continuous improvements. I would expect that the percentage of improvements made by them is larger than whatever Mercedes can continue to extract. So that rules stability seems to be creating more performance parity (it has just taken many years to get to this point). Hopefully this year will show more of that than in the past.

But we now have some new aero rules for this year and that may shake things up. Some may get it very right and some very wrong. We already see some divergent front wing designs. It's unlikely that all the different solutions work equally well. It's hard to predict until the cars actually start racing. Then the next question is.. how fast can the teams adjust/improve imperfect solutions? Some will be better at that than others. Being well funded helps grease the skids with that process as well.

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Old 21 Feb 2019, 23:58 (Ref:3885876)   #160
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The purported reason for the aero changes was to make cars more driveable in the wake of a preceding car, thus setting up more overtaking possibilities.
While some drivers have been taking brief opportunities to follow rival cars to check aero performance the fact that testing only involves one car per team prevents testing from being able to develop that function.
With the major changes being to front wing layout and rear wing height this means that there is no way teams can get a real handle on this until Australia.
Good thing or bad thing?
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 03:53 (Ref:3885893)   #161
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The purported reason for the aero changes was to make cars more driveable in the wake of a preceding car, thus setting up more overtaking possibilities.
While some drivers have been taking brief opportunities to follow rival cars to check aero performance the fact that testing only involves one car per team prevents testing from being able to develop that function.
With the major changes being to front wing layout and rear wing height this means that there is no way teams can get a real handle on this until Australia.
Good thing or bad thing?
This is a good point Tony.

The testing model seems to be built around only running a single car, must be in the regulations somewhere or else somebody would be bound to be running two cars in testing for double the data. They do it week in week out at the GPs.

Many of the teams have stated that the new rules will make no difference to following, some saying it will be worse, Toto Wolff being very blunt about the results of their modeling, and I guess nobody believes the change in regulations will make any difference, so running in tandem is not at the top of their priorities.
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 10:48 (Ref:3885927)   #162
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The purported reason for the aero changes was to make cars more driveable in the wake of a preceding car, thus setting up more overtaking possibilities.
While some drivers have been taking brief opportunities to follow rival cars to check aero performance the fact that testing only involves one car per team prevents testing from being able to develop that function.
With the major changes being to front wing layout and rear wing height this means that there is no way teams can get a real handle on this until Australia.
Good thing or bad thing?

I don't think it is all about aero, yes that has impacted in car following, but IMO the vastly shorter braking distances are one of the reasons for lack of overtaking, if you shorten the possible distance to overtake before the corner, you reduce overtaking.



This is where drivers like Verstappen and to a lesser extent Ricciardo benefit as they have a much greater feel for the brakes than some of the field, hence why those two are probably the most prolific overtakers (admittedly sometimes that leads to the odd do or die move), whereas I would suggest Vettel does not have that same feel for the brakes.


So, not all aero related but also braking related.
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 12:29 (Ref:3885936)   #163
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The short braking distances is a problem. Another caused by the good aero, that’s why they are so short. Not a dirty air thing, just an air thing.

They both are good at it, but Dani Ric is the out braking king, not Verstappen. He’s the brake testing king is have the lesser extent the other way round

Is the single car running and the reduced opportunity to follow another car a good or bad thing? It’s just a thing.
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 12:38 (Ref:3885938)   #164
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The short braking distances is a problem. Another caused by the good aero, that’s why they are so short. Not a dirty air thing, just an air thing.

They both are good at it, but Dani Ric is the out braking king, not Verstappen. He’s the brake testing king is have the lesser extent the other way round

Is the single car running and the reduced opportunity to follow another car a good or bad thing? It’s just a thing.

Interesting, Brundle reckons that Verstappen has the best feel for the brake pedal he has ever seen and one he wished he had when he was racing!
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 14:41 (Ref:3885959)   #165
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I was also surprised by the ranking of Verstappen over Ricciardio regarding late braking. This is not a dig at MV, but if my memory serves me, I remember DR making some spectacular late brake passes last year. Great control and demonstration of skill while on the limit. Pass attempts that you were sure to result in locked front tires, but did not. He seemed to stand out more than anyone in that regards. But everyone has their own opinion.

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Old 22 Feb 2019, 14:43 (Ref:3885961)   #166
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Maybe Ricciardo only saves his late braking for when he needs to pass someone
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 15:32 (Ref:3885966)   #167
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im in the DR camp as well.

that they both drove the same car might have been a factor...will be interesting to see if DR can pull off these kinds of moves in a Renault.

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While some drivers have been taking brief opportunities to follow rival cars to check aero performance the fact that testing only involves one car per team prevents testing from being able to develop that function.
have never questioned the one car thing before. for sure two cars would add a new dynamic with more options for comparison runs or race/overtaking simulations. intriguing idea.

would probably cost an extra billion though so probably best to not let them try it out!
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 17:33 (Ref:3885982)   #168
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Interesting, Brundle reckons that Verstappen has the best feel for the brake pedal he has ever seen and one he wished he had when he was racing!
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...s-seat-in-2019

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... I continue to mull over just how Ricciardo can brake so late whilst avoiding his rival and still make the corner, with a clean exit.
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 18:27 (Ref:3886002)   #169
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Another view..

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...tappen-s-speed


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Old 22 Feb 2019, 20:23 (Ref:3886029)   #170
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Maybe Ricciardo only saves his late braking for when he needs to pass someone
That would produce less wear on the tyres.
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Old 22 Feb 2019, 22:47 (Ref:3886061)   #171
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Another view..

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...tappen-s-speed


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Not Brundle saying that



https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...i2ceCgwaA.html

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Originally Posted by Riccciardo’s biggest fan Horner ;)
I think he's one of the best overtakers out there – his judgement of being able to brake late enough for the apex is quite phenomenal.
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Old 23 Feb 2019, 17:28 (Ref:3886162)   #172
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Maybe they are both good!

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Old 23 Feb 2019, 19:25 (Ref:3886178)   #173
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Fingers crossed, I'm trying to stay optimistic. To watch the last bastion of F1 disappear in such an ignominious fashion is truly unthinkable.
Last bastion? There’s still Ferrari and McLaren, they were there first. Williams are the new guys of that legacy triad. /quibble
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Old 23 Feb 2019, 22:17 (Ref:3886204)   #174
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Maybe they are both good!

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I reckon so.
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Old 24 Feb 2019, 04:58 (Ref:3886234)   #175
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This is where drivers like Verstappen and to a lesser extent Ricciardo benefit as they have a much greater feel for the brakes.....
Like others have also said I think you have that backwards but its just my opinion.

It will be interesting to see if the new aero changes this year have any effect on cornering speeds or tyre wear and if they make it easier for cars to follow more closely as was the goal.

Would the new front wing being wider possibly make late braking better by providing more down-force for the lead or following car?
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