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Old 11 Jun 2010, 04:41 (Ref:2708874)   #501
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Adjustable/movable aero, not gonna happen.






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Old 11 Jun 2010, 05:15 (Ref:2708885)   #502
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Already happened in F1-since 2009, F1 cars have run adjustable front wings(after the FIA inisited that no movable areo devices were permitted on such cars for 30 years), and it's proposed that the rear wings may be adjustable on the 2011 F1 cars.

But do we need this on sportscars? I don't think so. The Peugeot 908's J-damper(pirated from McLaren and Ferrari) and the rised noses sans brake ducting are enough for me.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 05:29 (Ref:2708887)   #503
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Jets have movable aero also! But we were talking about ACO Le Mans Sportscars.




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Old 11 Jun 2010, 07:29 (Ref:2708912)   #504
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I'm confused as hell by this wording:

...

The wording is really bad...bottom line, can you continue to run a 5.5L V10 Judd in 2011 if you wanted to? And if so, why the initial wording that says otherwise?
The French to English translator completely screwed up. My translation from French of that paragraph (see here for French version):
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As announced two years ago, the engines of LMP1 will have their capacity reduced. Given the economic context, and to ensure a transition period, the regulation 2011, for the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the ILMC, ALMS, LMS and Asian, was built. It provides the maintenance, for one year, of LMP1 version 2010, with adjustments of their performance against the new 2011 models. The development of current chassis is frozen at 31/12/2010.
Bottomline current LMP1 cars will be able to run unchanged next year, with some performance restrictions.

In fact, Bruno Famin said the following in this interview:
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What do you think of the choice of the ACO to enable LMP1 2010 to drive in 2011?
« Given the context, more due to the late announcement of the regulation, it is reasonable. From there, the 908 HDi FAP might still ride, but it is not our priority ... Overall, it is in any case a decision fairly intelligent. »
He also gives the example of the Audi R10 that is allowed to race this year with the 2009 restrictors on the condition that it is not driven by the factory pilots.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 13:55 (Ref:2709183)   #505
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It looks like petrol turbo engines will be 2.6l capacity now.

That spec looks a lot more punchy and solid for a 24hr engine than the 2l turbo or 3.4l V8.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...FS=ALMS-LEMANS


Edit, presumably HPD are building P1 and P2 engines?

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gine-for-2011/

Last edited by JAG; 11 Jun 2010 at 14:17.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 14:34 (Ref:2709207)   #506
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Somehow I didn't notice when I read it the first time that the Speed article says HPD is building a 2.8L twin turbo as an LMP2 engine. Does anybody have a link to the full release of the tech regs for the 2011 race? Tried looking on lemans.org but couldn't find them where I used to. Seems to fit the idea of the LMP2 street based engines since they can build it up from the V6 out of the Accord and Acuras but is 2.8 too large for a turbo LMP2?
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 17:51 (Ref:2709353)   #507
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The ACO has therefore allowed the use of hybrid systems. KERS will be allowed, if they respect the following rules:
- Recovery and release of the energy on two wheels only.
- Maximum quantity of energy released between two braking phases: 500 kJ.
- Energy stocking: electrical or mechanical systems
- System accelerator pedal only (no push-to-pass button)
- Hybrid safety specification drawn up by the ACO
- Driver aids banned
- Fuel tank capacity reduction: 2 liters less for petrol and diesel-engined cars
- Pit lane test obligatory for the cars in the hybrid category
http://www.planetlemans.com/2010/06/...at-the-future/

Does the above mean the KERS system is intergrated with the engine so you can use it for extra performance or improved MPG?

When the ACO talked of only using KERS to improve MPG it seems they were refering to disallowing push-to-pass. When the KERS system is intergrated with the engine you can use it for extra performance or improved MPG.

Last edited by JAG; 11 Jun 2010 at 18:14.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 17:55 (Ref:2709356)   #508
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Does the above mean the KERS system is intergrated with the engine so you can use it for extra performance or improved MPG?
Yeah, sounds like a very much engine-integrated system, so purely a hybrid.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 18:39 (Ref:2709384)   #509
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Somehow I didn't notice when I read it the first time that the Speed article says HPD is building a 2.8L twin turbo as an LMP2 engine. Does anybody have a link to the full release of the tech regs for the 2011 race? Tried looking on lemans.org but couldn't find them where I used to. Seems to fit the idea of the LMP2 street based engines since they can build it up from the V6 out of the Accord and Acuras but is 2.8 too large for a turbo LMP2?
To add to the confusion, Autoweek online is saying HPD is building a 3.2liter twin turbo engine for lmp2. I guess we will just have to wait and see what shows up at Sebring test days
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 18:44 (Ref:2709387)   #510
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To add to the confusion, Autoweek online is saying HPD is building a 3.2liter twin turbo engine for lmp2. I guess we will just have to wait and see what shows up at Sebring test days

Nah, we will see the rules before then. Whatever they build I would suspect it to be to the capacity of its configuration by rule.





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Old 11 Jun 2010, 19:33 (Ref:2709411)   #511
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It looks like petrol turbo engines will be 2.6l capacity now.

That spec looks a lot more punchy and solid for a 24hr engine than the 2l turbo or 3.4l V8.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...FS=ALMS-LEMANS


Edit, presumably HPD are building P1 and P2 engines?

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gine-for-2011/
2.6l V6 is the new Indy Engine size - so would make sense for Honda
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 19:50 (Ref:2709417)   #512
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There definitely is some confusion going on here. There seem to be 2 seperate V-6s in the works here. A 2.6L TT for P-1 (with room for a kers unit?) in parallel with the INDY engine. For P-2 a 2.8L (TT?) based on their global production engine.






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Old 11 Jun 2010, 19:53 (Ref:2709420)   #513
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I don't believe that. The displacement for turbocharged LMP1 2011 is limited to 2 liters!
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 19:56 (Ref:2709422)   #514
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I don't believe that. The displacement for turbocharged LMP1 2011 is limited to 2 liters!
Maybe there's a draft unknown to us (the public) which would allow for slightly larger displacements? The regulations aren't fully finalized, we know that. And with a bit of lobbying from interested manufacturers...
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 20:02 (Ref:2709425)   #515
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I don't believe that. The displacement for turbocharged LMP1 2011 is limited to 2 liters!
that may be bumped up to make the little turbos more competitive engines.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 20:32 (Ref:2709441)   #516
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Yes confusion.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-4635.html

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...gine-for-2011/

P-1

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...FS=ALMS-LEMANS




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Old 11 Jun 2010, 20:55 (Ref:2709451)   #517
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And both articles, probably referencing the same press release, have said the engine was developed in connection with the ACO. Could they be opening the turbo capacity to make a more durable engine for P2s. As Dyson has shown, the 2.0 turbos aren't the most durable units for one race never mind the 30 hours, 3500 miles the articles quote as being their target endurance.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 23:38 (Ref:2709523)   #518
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IRL formula for 2012 is 2.4 liter V6s (turbo). Honda motor is 2.8 and geared for P2 (capacity max there being 3.2). I think Ingram said it shared nothing with the Honda IRL motor? Future motor or current? Who knows...I'm confused too because then there's the Global Racing Engine and the Honda release mentions its based upon Honda's global V6..."global" as in GRE or some production derived fleet engine used throughout Honda and Acura?
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 00:22 (Ref:2709532)   #519
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I think their global refers to its internal use across their line-up of street cars, Honda offers 5 and Acura has 4 all seemingly using a 3.5-3.7L V6 in their US lineup. I also thought I had read in an article that the IRL and LMP engines had nothing in common and were independently developed.

Have you seen any of the engine specs for each of the classes for 2011? I figured if anybody here has a line to an ACO released draft, it would be you Mike. I couldn't find anything on the aco's site myself.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 01:08 (Ref:2709540)   #520
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If someone can track it down there was an article a few months back in which HPD claimed to be working with the ACO on P1/P2 engines proposal that complimented their road cars and other motorsport programs.

My interpretation was these engines may not neccessarily fall within the then known ACO P1/P2 specs.

Presumably the 2.6l Turbo P1 engine was one of these proposals?

This engine is given more credence as Highcroft talk about a 2011 P1 Le Mans program and advises HPD to fit KERS, a technology that is currently only allowed in P1.

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Old 12 Jun 2010, 03:20 (Ref:2709560)   #521
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I think their global refers to its internal use across their line-up of street cars, Honda offers 5 and Acura has 4 all seemingly using a 3.5-3.7L V6 in their US lineup. I also thought I had read in an article that the IRL and LMP engines had nothing in common and were independently developed.

Have you seen any of the engine specs for each of the classes for 2011? I figured if anybody here has a line to an ACO released draft, it would be you Mike. I couldn't find anything on the aco's site myself.
The ACO hasn't released anything in detail. Though oddly, I was told today that they intend to clarify the remaining issues tomorrow. Whether they go public I don't know. Would seem odd they would have a press conference on race morning.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 03:30 (Ref:2709562)   #522
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I think their global refers to its internal use across their line-up of street cars, Honda offers 5 and Acura has 4 all seemingly using a 3.5-3.7L V6 in their US lineup. I also thought I had read in an article that the IRL and LMP engines had nothing in common and were independently developed.

Have you seen any of the engine specs for each of the classes for 2011? I figured if anybody here has a line to an ACO released draft, it would be you Mike. I couldn't find anything on the aco's site myself.
I guess the thing to note is that it appears the cylinder maxes for P1 have been removed.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2011ACOVersion4.jpg

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Old 12 Jun 2010, 05:28 (Ref:2709570)   #523
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I can already see this thing having bigger engines in P2, as it looks right now anyway, backfiring in terms of NOT producing the relative pace of P1 and P2 that the ACO is looking for. Looks like P675/P2 haven't hammered the message home.

I also did some basic calculations. Based on the power figures for current, top P2s that have been discussed (figures that are somewhat higher than the official numbers), unless drag is significantly reduced, the power drop from ~575hp down to the proposed 420hp drops practical top speed for P2s from 291km/h (fastest I've seen for any P2 car this year) down to 249km/h. And we think the GT2 guys have something to complain about with the current class structure.

Also, without significant drag reductions, if P1s drop from a maximum of ~750hp down to the proposed 520hp level, their top-end speed would drop from 348km/h down to 290km/h.

With the new P2s at 900kg, but with these amended engine capacity rules, they should just leave P1 alone the way things appear to stand now.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 06:01 (Ref:2709574)   #524
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Based on the power figures for current, top P2s that have been discussed (figures that are somewhat higher than the official numbers), unless drag is significantly reduced, the power drop from ~575hp down to the proposed 420hp drops practical top speed for P2s from 291km/h (fastest I've seen for any P2 car this year) down to 249km/h.
Highest top speed for LMP2 this year is 309 km/h. See http://orig.lemans.oceanet.eu/iframe...tice_speed.pdf and http://orig.lemans.oceanet.eu/iframe...ng_3_speed.pdf
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 06:45 (Ref:2709585)   #525
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George Howard-Chappell on the new rules: http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-4636.html
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What do you think of the rules on the hybrid?
"As an engineer, I think it's very interesting to work on such technology. But when you look at the equivalences, this means that you must choose the hybrid to have the best performance. I'm not sure this is the ideal solution. Reducing emissions and consumption is good. But there is not only the hybrid for that."

To conclude, what are your plans LMP1 for 2011?
"We're in the process of finalizing the concept. For this we are waiting for details of the regulation. But no decision has yet been taken on the actual launch of the project. In its regulation, the ACO has written in black and white that there would be an equivalence between different types of engine and fuel. We expect to know how and when this equivalence will be made. We want to understand how it will be established. The problem is that, as you saw with seven seconds separating the best diesel and of the best petrol, the base is not good."
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