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Old 20 Dec 2018, 06:59 (Ref:3871572)   #951
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I was at the 73 GP at Silverstone and whilst I enjoyed it hugely the picture wasn't entirely rosy . What was brilliant was just how close you got to the track and to watch at Copse , Club or Woodcote was amazing. The cars had diversity in looks but not in engines as BRM , Ferrari and (crappy ) Tecno apart , everybody ran an identical DFV . But watching Peterson sideways - really sideways - at Woodcote in the ageing Lotus 72 was extraordinary.



Big grid and different cars all good then but the next 20 years saw better, if not in track access . The 1.5 turbo era gave us blinding speed, different (but still very loud ) engines ,and in many configurations . But the NA F1 from '89 was the best of all in so many ways . Huge range of cars, big grids , V8s , 10s and 12s and lovely , clean lines of so many cars -none more than the screaming soprano V12 Ferrari 640/641 .



There is something to learn from each era- but no risk of that as most people in F1 have quite shocking levels of ignorance about or complete disdain for F1 history .
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Old 20 Dec 2018, 12:53 (Ref:3871627)   #952
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I wonder what Liberty's business plan really is and what in the end we will finish up with in 2021. I ask this because of why they bought F1 in the first place and that was to ensure that they had TV and streaming content in the years to come and it was cheaper to buy the series than buy the content. That reason may well conflict with what the die hard spectator wants. For instance the more races they can introduce the more content they have, a charming thought indeed. I suspect their idea of fixing it may not be mine.
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Old 20 Dec 2018, 23:18 (Ref:3871717)   #953
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I was at the 73 GP at Silverstone and whilst I enjoyed it hugely the picture wasn't entirely rosy . What was brilliant was just how close you got to the track and to watch at Copse , Club or Woodcote was amazing. The cars had diversity in looks but not in engines as BRM , Ferrari and (crappy ) Tecno apart , everybody ran an identical DFV . But watching Peterson sideways - really sideways - at Woodcote in the ageing Lotus 72 was extraordinary.



Big grid and different cars all good then but the next 20 years saw better, if not in track access . The 1.5 turbo era gave us blinding speed, different (but still very loud ) engines ,and in many configurations . But the NA F1 from '89 was the best of all in so many ways . Huge range of cars, big grids , V8s , 10s and 12s and lovely , clean lines of so many cars -none more than the screaming soprano V12 Ferrari 640/641 .



There is something to learn from each era- but no risk of that as most people in F1 have quite shocking levels of ignorance about or complete disdain for F1 history .


(The Matra didn't sound too shabby either..... )
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Old 21 Dec 2018, 00:00 (Ref:3871721)   #954
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Matra didn't compete at the 1973 British GP or in the 1973 F1 season. They quit F1 after a fairly dismal season the year before, concentrating on the Group 5 World Sports Car Championship, after wining LeMans in 1972. They went on to win the World Sports Car Championship and LeMans in 1973 and '74.
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Old 21 Dec 2018, 00:12 (Ref:3871724)   #955
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(They still sounded sweet. 'Nothing to do with any year.

(edit: neither did the 640/641s.... )

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Old 21 Dec 2018, 00:46 (Ref:3871727)   #956
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(The Matra didn't sound too shabby either..... )

The Matra V12 circa 1973 gets my vote as the most epic sounding F1 engine!
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Old 21 Dec 2018, 01:01 (Ref:3871730)   #957
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The Matra V12 circa 1973 gets my vote as the most epic sounding F1 engine!
I don't recollect...they dropped it in the 670 and it lasted 24 hours?

edit: Never mind; 'got my answer. https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/...tra-MS670.html

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Old 21 Dec 2018, 01:20 (Ref:3871731)   #958
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Matra won LeMans three years in a row with that engine, 1972 -'74, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel.

One thing I liked about F1 in the '70s was the variety of engines.
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Old 21 Dec 2018, 05:52 (Ref:3871748)   #959
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Matra won LeMans three years in a row with that engine, 1972 -'74, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel.
And it returned to F1 in '75-78 and '81,'82.
Don't fergit Graham, David, Chris, 3 Jean-Pierres, Bob, Patrick, Francois, Howden, Gerard, Gijs, Herbert, and Jose; he wasn't the sole Matra driver at Le Mans.

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Old 23 Dec 2018, 23:47 (Ref:3872164)   #960
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And it returned to F1 in '75-78 and '81,'82.
Don't fergit Graham, David, Chris, 3 Jean-Pierres, Bob, Patrick, Francois, Howden, Gerard, Gijs, Herbert, and Jose; he wasn't the sole Matra driver at Le Mans.
If we are being picky, Pescarola only won with Graham Hill and Gerard Larrousse, good old days only 2 drivers.
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Old 23 Dec 2018, 23:49 (Ref:3872167)   #961
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Matra won LeMans three years in a row with that engine, 1972 -'74, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel.

One thing I liked about F1 in the '70s was the variety of engines.
The Matra engine in the sports car never sounded as good as the F1, more highly tuned in the F1. But it was good nevertheless.

Must have sounded epic going down the Mulsanne straight!
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 05:42 (Ref:3872184)   #962
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If we are being picky, Pescarola only won with Graham Hill and Gerard Larrousse, good old days only 2 drivers.
'Always am. The statement was that Matra won with the detuned F1 engine, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel. thus...
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Matra won LeMans three years in a row with that engine, 1972 -'74, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel.
...The team (Matra) used the F1 engine for sure, but, had more than just one driver each year.
(I gotcha tho, in a row.)

I'm alert. We need more lerts.

Seriously, I like to give credit where credit is due. If any one of the others did something different than they did on the given day, perhaps Henri, Graham, and Gerard wouldn't have won. One never knows.

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Old 24 Dec 2018, 05:54 (Ref:3872185)   #963
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The Matra engine in the sports car never sounded as good as the F1, more highly tuned in the F1. But it was good nevertheless.

Must have sounded epic going down the Mulsanne straight!
'Did.
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 07:21 (Ref:3872192)   #964
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If we are being picky, Pescarola only won with Graham Hill and Gerard Larrousse, good old days only 2 drivers.

If you are going to be picky then it would be quite a good idea to spell Pescarolo properly ...
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 10:31 (Ref:3872217)   #965
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'Did.
Modern amateur video.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g14qWsCiGCU
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 14:19 (Ref:3872247)   #966
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'Always am. The statement was that Matra won with the detuned F1 engine, and with Henri Pescarolo behind the wheel. thus...

...The team (Matra) used the F1 engine for sure, but, had more than just one driver each year.
(I gotcha tho, in a row.)

Seriously, I like to give credit where credit is due. If any one of the others did something different than they did on the given day, perhaps Henri, Graham, and Gerard wouldn't have won. One never knows.
I know Pesacarolo didn't win Le Mans on his own. He was partnered first time by the late, great Graham Hill and then twice by Gérard Larrousse. Without them co-driving he may not have won it three times in a row; up until then, only two other drivers had previously done so.

I got to hear and see the Matra V12 race four times. First in 1974, at the British Airways 1000 km at Brands Hatch in the Matra-Simca MS670C, again in 1976, '78 and 1982 at the British GPs also at Brands Hatch, when Ligier put it in the back of their cars.

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I'm alert. We need more lerts.
I thought you were alert, all along.
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 02:52 (Ref:3872320)   #967
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If you are going to be picky then it would be quite a good idea to spell Pescarolo properly ...
Certain deliberate errors will be made to see if you are a lert, congratulations Coppice this forum needs lerts.

Actually, I was flat out trying to spell Larrousse plopley!
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 03:02 (Ref:3872321)   #968
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I really miss hearing engines at full chat with the accelerator pinned to the floor in top gear for a long time (30 seconds?) in modern racing. Gives you goose bumps and raises the hair on the back of your neck! (Hybrids not at all)

Demonstration runs also never bring back the true anger of a car being driven flat out in a race either.

We desperately need a couple of 6 km straights like Mulsanne used to be.

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Old 25 Dec 2018, 07:22 (Ref:3872331)   #969
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(A)for a long time (30 seconds?)

(B) We desperately need a couple of 6 km straights like Mulsanne used to be.
(A)30 secs.??? Try a minute! (They didn't hit 400! Let's say average 180mph for three miles = 1 min.)

(B) Dream on. 'Ain't never gonna happen again. Too "dangerous"...
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 07:37 (Ref:3872334)   #970
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As it's Christmas I can dream - and so much of what Grand Prix racing has meant to me is about noise and diversity of designs . Just reading yesterday about the Honda RA 271 with transverse V12 engine of 1.5 litres - and it raced against not only the little V8s from Coventry Climax and the Ferrari V6 and flat 12 . Until the current homogeneity of dull sounding turbo V6s Grand n Prix F1 cars have made so many tunes - IL 4, 6 and 8 ; V6, 8, 10 , 12 and 16 ; flat 4, 6 ,12; W12 and H16 . NA, turbo and supercharged ; and a gas turbine. And some I have missed out too...



4 wheels and 6 wheels ; mid and front engined, wings and no wings and hundreds of different body shapes .



Despite spending utterly grotesque amounts , many(many ) times what their predecessors did each team is now producing effectively the same car .



The reference to Grand Prix racing is deliberate as the sport goes back to 1906 and not 1950 , when the Formula 1 label was applied .
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 08:46 (Ref:3872342)   #971
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As a spectator, or more usually in my case, standing on the pitwall at a historic race event, diversity in engine and exhaust notes is a huge part of the enjoyment! Not so much with the HF1 cars, as DFV rules, but in historic sports cars and GTs I’ve been privileged to hear machines like the Lola T92/10 Judd flat all along the straight at Dijon, Ford F3L going down through the gears for the first corner at Jarama, Howmet Gas Turbine spooling up in the pitlane at Imola, Ferrari 512, Matra 670 and 917 going up through the gears.... To name but a few!

If you’re into the cars, it really does make a tremendous difference, and for me it’s a shame that only certain formula have diversity nowadays....
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 18:44 (Ref:3872374)   #972
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it’s a shame that only certain formula have diversity nowadays....
And even those, BoPing F's them up.
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 21:13 (Ref:3872378)   #973
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Maybe with the technology available today they can have a "Select Engine Noise Mode" button on the TV coverage.That will allow you to hear the racing in the engine sound of your choice.
Or you can just hit the mute button and have realistic electric car sound.
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Old 26 Dec 2018, 00:30 (Ref:3872388)   #974
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Maybe with the technology available today they can have a "Select Engine Noise Mode" button on the TV coverage.That will allow you to hear the racing in the engine sound of your choice.
Or you can just hit the mute button and have realistic electric car sound.
Have a select technology button too, the commentators can then bang on about hybrid tech or v8s or the latest flat twelve that revs to 22000 rpm, all pure fantasy, good times, everyone's happy!
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Old 26 Dec 2018, 10:20 (Ref:3872407)   #975
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Maybe with the technology available today they can have a "Select Engine Noise Mode" button on the TV coverage.That will allow you to hear the racing in the engine sound of your choice.
Or you can just hit the mute button and have realistic electric car sound.
Renault do this on the Clio. Seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDQnZzriyyA
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