2013 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 8-10 February

[Oldtony]

Agreed the circuit made the racing. In the 50s and early 60s it was open wheelers and sports cars that drew a crowd of enthusiasts,Great racing.
But it got about four collumn inches 2 pages in from the back page of the Tele, the Herald an d a ten second mention on the TV unless someone really had a big accident when the coverage was doubled.
It wasn't until the Armstrong 500 moved from Phillip Island with a race for cars "just like the public drove" that the circuit and the racing there started to get media and public recognition.
The 56 AGP and TT meeting was probably the best racing I have seen at Bathurst, but the crowd was pretty thin.
Anyone like to take up my index of performance idea and flesh it out?

[nafe!]

I still believe the core issue is the promoter.

When they switched to gt3 the entry prices for the production cars went close to double from what i remember with no reasonable explanation.

So first of all James Obrien alienated the production crew by making their cars obsolete as far as outright contention was concerned and then says oh by the way if you still want to race your now paying twice as much.

Then he went on to handicap the local operations making them stick to driver seeding rules while audi fielded 2 complete pro outfits minus mark eddy that completely contravened the regulations set out for the event. Alienate major local motorsport player and Aus gt entrants in general = success.

The car classes have been all over the place, and needs to be broadened to a great degree rather then just focusing on specific entries Mr obrien and co feel should be in the race. Lets not forget the stroke of genius to create a class for commodore cup and saloon cars

Simple solution, adopt the N24hr regs.

Im not sure what the hurdles are if any with getting a tarmac rally car to race but the targa fields have a great variety of modern cars that would be a fantastic addition to the event.

There has been some better decisions made with production cars being allowed to run on slicks now (any word on a wet tyre or are they still expected to risk a massive accident on the semi slicks?) as well as the tyre brands being opened up to 3 but really they are making tiny changes when the event needs a huge amount of change behind the scenes.

And most importantly when it comes to the meaning of promoter, he is failing miserably in this regard. There is next to no advertising full stop for the event, this year people in bathurst didnt even know what was going on at the mountain that weekend. It needs to be all over the radio, tv, motorsport and motoring publications if you are going to get a half decent crowd.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by woodduck97

The last 2 years have shown that in the 12 hour concept, it doesnt work for whatever reason.

Armour All obviously thought so too.....

Woodduck, I think to say it doesnt work after 2 runnings of the event is jumping the gun a fair bit.

There are definitely issues that need addressing, but as suggested above alot of this has to do with the promoter (event date, entry cost etc) rather than the category running.

Armour All walked at the end of the contract. It would be outageous to suggest that they would have stayed under a production car only event.

Originally Posted by woodduck97

Production car racing showed it could get cars on the grid... Gt3 showed that it couldnt, and even though there are obvious "status" and "exotic" improvements with GT3, the crowd didnt swell, the majority of Australian GT competitors gave it a wide berth... and the naming rights sponsor walked...

As has been mentioned, regardless of how many cars the prods had entered this wasnt successful for the event to survive for those running it. Hence the move to the GT3 category which has seen increased coverage and status for the event.

To continually come back to the "but we got so many cars" misses the point and shows a total lack of understanding when it comes to putting on an event.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by nafe!

I still believe the core issue is the promoter.

And most importantly when it comes to the meaning of promoter, he is failing miserably in this regard. There is next to no advertising full stop for the event, this year people in bathurst didnt even know what was going on at the mountain that weekend. It needs to be all over the radio, tv, motorsport and motoring publications if you are going to get a half decent crowd.

Set up camp om Thursday then went into town for a feed. The barman at the pub wondered why ther were so many strangers in town. Was amazed when we told him we were there for the races. hadn't heard they were on.
Friday night went into Pizza Hut. The girl on the counter asked us what was on out at the track as they were getting delivery orders from out there.
Monday morning on the way out called at Maccas for breaky. Picked up the Sydney Tele and checked for a story. Not a mention of the event.
Would indicate some minor problems in the advertising and PR departments, and in the reportage of the media who did attend.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Set up camp om Thursday then went into town for a feed. The barman at the pub wondered why ther were so many strangers in town. Was amazed when we told him we were there for the races. hadn't heard they were on .Friday night went into Pizza Hut. The girl on the counter asked us what was on out at the track as they were getting delivery orders from out there.Monday morning on the way out called at Maccas for breaky. Picked up the Sydney Tele and checked for a story. Not a mention of the event.Would indicate some minor problems in the advertising and PR departments, and in the reportage of the media who did attend.

Sounds very similar to my experience there. It seemed that the only people that knew something was on were hotel staff and a couple of restaurants.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

To continually come back to the "but we got so many cars" misses the point and shows a total lack of understanding when it comes to putting on an event.

Doesn't miss the point but it certainly is one of the problems.
It is no use setting this up as an either GT or Prody issue. The race needs them both. Both classes also need to attract high profile entrants who attract their own media coverage. To some extent Audi achieve that for GT but probably the only way the production brigade will do it is by strong local manufacturer or importer participation using some high profile V8SC drivers.
How do the organisers achieve a situation where that is a worthwhile project for the industry as well as the sport???????

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by nafe!

I still believe the core issue is the promoter.

When they switched to gt3 the entry prices for the production cars went close to double from what i remember with no reasonable explanation.

So first of all James Obrien alienated the production crew by making their cars obsolete as far as outright contention was concerned and then says oh by the way if you still want to race your now paying twice as much.

Then he went on to handicap the local operations making them stick to driver seeding rules while audi fielded 2 complete pro outfits minus mark eddy that completely contravened the regulations set out for the event. Alienate major local motorsport player and Aus gt entrants in general = success.

The car classes have been all over the place, and needs to be broadened to a great degree rather then just focusing on specific entries Mr obrien and co feel should be in the race. Lets not forget the stroke of genius to create a class for commodore cup and saloon cars

Simple solution, adopt the N24hr regs.

Im not sure what the hurdles are if any with getting a tarmac rally car to race but the targa fields have a great variety of modern cars that would be a fantastic addition to the event.

There has been some better decisions made with production cars being allowed to run on slicks now (any word on a wet tyre or are they still expected to risk a massive accident on the semi slicks?) as well as the tyre brands being opened up to 3 but really they are making tiny changes when the event needs a huge amount of change behind the scenes.

And most importantly when it comes to the meaning of promoter, he is failing miserably in this regard. There is next to no advertising full stop for the event, this year people in bathurst didnt even know what was going on at the mountain that weekend. It needs to be all over the radio, tv, motorsport and motoring publications if you are going to get a half decent crowd.

Nail >>>>> Head

could not agree more, on every level/point.

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Doesn't miss the point but it certainly is one of the problems.
It is no use setting this up as an either GT or Prody issue. The race needs them both. Both classes also need to attract high profile entrants who attract their own media coverage. To some extent Audi achieve that for GT but probably the only way the production brigade will do it is by strong local manufacturer or importer participation using some high profile V8SC drivers.
How do the organisers achieve a situation where that is a worthwhile project for the industry as well as the sport???????

very true, I am not against people being able to run GT3 cars in the 12 hour, but to do this at the expense of ProSports is just dumb.

(also, the definition of ProSports needs to be sorted to allow the same cars that currently run in the ProdSports enduro format to run as they are, ie. with 2B cars etc.)

the whole point of a 12 hour is to include as mush variety as you can, adding rules/costs/etc that cut this down is just asking for very small selective grids.

Looking at how the N24 is run is a good idea, they consistently have massive entry lists, sensible costs, and above all, an inclusive attitude.

[woodduck97]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Woodduck, I think to say it doesnt work after 2 runnings of the event is jumping the gun a fair bit.

There are definitely issues that need addressing, but as suggested above alot of this has to do with the promoter (event date, entry cost etc) rather than the category running.

Armour All walked at the end of the contract. It would be outageous to suggest that they would have stayed under a production car only event.



As has been mentioned, regardless of how many cars the prods had entered this wasnt successful for the event to survive for those running it. Hence the move to the GT3 category which has seen increased coverage and status for the event.

To continually come back to the "but we got so many cars" misses the point and shows a total lack of understanding when it comes to putting on an event.

ahhhhh... Armour All Signed on when the event was still a production car only race (the 2010 event)..and that contract was signed and done before the rumoured "meeting of the minds" that come up with idea to run GT3.

So how is "outraegous" in suggesting that the contract wouldnt have been extended anyway if it was a production car race, when the signed up initially to sponsor a production only race, for 3 years.. ?

Dude...Seriously....

And when it comes to the running of the event... let's have a play with some figures for the sake of the argument....

45 production cars at (for arguments sake) $10,000 per entry = $450,000

10 GT cars in at (for arguments sake) at $20,000 per entry = $200,000
15 "grid fillers" (Gt4, prod cars, whatever) at $15,000 per entry = $225,000
Total = $425,000

I know those are round figures but it shows my point. To make up that difference you would need another 1,000 spectators at $25 a head to come through the gate above and beyond what the Production cars would have drawn. I highly doubt with the promotional efforts Oldtony and the gang have mentioned above that would have happened. And even if it did, the draw would only equal the production cars.. To suggest that production cars where so much more unsustainable is very questionable.

I also wouldnt say there has been a massive leap forward in sponsorship with GT3 coming on either... so you cant say the gap has been made up there either. As we have discussed, the event lost it's major sponsor so that is more money that needs to be made up.

Now, the general consensis seems to be that competitor numbers dont matter... well... in the press release that Armour All put out announcing the withdrawl:

General Manager of the Armored Auto Group Paul Blair says that the long-term potential of the Bathurst 12 Hour is appealing, but he could not see a substantial improvement rate in competitor numbers.
“While we recognise the support the event has received from international competitors and manufacturers, entry numbers haven’t matched pace with the investment required, so therefore we have elected to withdraw our support,” said Blair.
“The year-on-year growth hasn’t kept pace with projections despite opening the field up to FIA GT3 machines two years ago.


Sounds to me like competitor numbers matter to this sponsor.....one of the bigger sponsors around.


So, unless I am missing something, Your argument is redundant.


Simon: I like your thinking... I dont know a lot about Prodsports, but I think that would be a good fit... Could you guys run a prodsports car for 12 hours without a massive expense above and beyond a 1 hour ? If you could that would be a possible solution to the grid numbers issue.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by woodduck97

So how is "outraegous" in suggesting that the contract wouldnt have been extended anyway if it was a production car race, when the signed up initially to sponsor a production only race, for 3 years.. ?

Dude seriously, they signed up to the Bathurst 12 hour for 3 years.

Contract ended after 3 years. What do you have to suggest that the production cars would keep them there for another 3 years?

Any sponsor who is basing the success of their sponsorship solely on how many cars turn up, probably shouldnt be in business. I dont put Amour All in the basket.

Originally Posted by woodduck97

To suggest that production cars where so much more unsustainable is very questionable.

I am not suggesting that production cars were so much unsustainable that GT3.

At the current moment both scenario's are unsustainable, however just becuase the event struggled in 2012 under GT3 and Production cars does not automatically make 45 Production cars a viable proposition for a promoter, which is what I feel you are suggesting?

Fingers crossed with a new date, improved entry fees and slicks for the prods might make for a more sustainable event in 2013.

[alfacors]

Originally Posted by woodduck97

Simon: I like your thinking... I dont know a lot about Prodsports, but I think that would be a good fit... Could you guys run a prodsports car for 12 hours without a massive expense above and beyond a 1 hour ? If you could that would be a possible solution to the grid numbers issue.

I'm curious about this too. How many teams have the capacity and budget to prep and run a 12 Hour race? Or will they build specific 12 Hour spec cars? Will you see guys run the 12 Hour then disappear for the res of the ProdSports calendar because they blew their wad at Bathurst?

[Shane001]

Originally Posted by alfacors

I'm curious about this too. How many teams have the capacity and budget to prep and run a 12 Hour race? Or will they build specific 12 Hour spec cars? Will you see guys run the 12 Hour then disappear for the res of the ProdSports calendar because they blew their wad at Bathurst?

Can only speak for myself, but the issues are;
high entry cost.
forced to use suppliers fuel at a huge premium.
forced to use suppliers tyres.
Refuelling - most prod sports cars (except maybe the more expensive front runners) wouldn't have dry break systems.

Fix the above and I'd be interested

But yeah, it'd probably blow my budget for the whole year lol!

[woodduck97]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Dude seriously, they signed up to the Bathurst 12 hour for 3 years.

Contract ended after 3 years. What do you have to suggest that the production cars would keep them there for another 3 years?

Did you read my post ?????

They signed up to sponsor a PRODUCTION car race in the first place !!!
I suggest that they found something appealing in this format.. and signed up for the event for 3 years, when GT3 wasn't in the picture. Something matched with their branding, and they signed on. They obviously thought even then that the event had merit and doesn't now. The only difference is the main act.

So if they found the event attractive in the first place as a production car race, surely if the event was moving forward as a production car race (and with the "new" AMC in place it could very well have...) it isnt "outreagous" to suggest they might have stayed on.....if it works, keep doing it.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Any sponsor who is basing the success of their sponsorship solely on how many cars turn up, probably shouldnt be in business. I dont put Amour All in the basket.

Did you read the quote I posted from Armour All ?

That is (seemingly) what they based it on... They didnt see the event moving forward under the switch and they didnt like the decline in competitor numbers. Might want to read that quote again there old mate....sorry if that FACT gets in the way of your GT3 is the "be all and end all" fantasy.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I am not suggesting that production cars were so much unsustainable that GT3.

At the current moment both scenario's are unsustainable, however just becuase the event struggled in 2012 under GT3 and Production cars does not automatically make 45 Production cars a viable proposition for a promoter, which is what I feel you are suggesting?

Fingers crossed with a new date, improved entry fees and slicks for the prods might make for a more sustainable event in 2013.

The excuse given to competitors to switch over was that it was unsustainable to continue as a production car race, and that GT3 was more viable.

Perhaps that logic has been shown up for the lawn fertisiler it is.

If the event can't be sustained, it can't be sustained. Strange that the event went for 4 years before it became "unsustainable" without a whisper of such unsustainability.... and now it has been turned into a glorified "Butcher's picnic" in which virtually anything with 4 wheels could get a start if it fronted with cash.

[alfacors]

Originally Posted by Shane001

Can only speak for myself, but the issues are;
high entry cost.
forced to use suppliers fuel at a huge premium.
forced to use suppliers tyres.
Refuelling - most prod sports cars (except maybe the more expensive front runners) wouldn't have dry break systems.

Fix the above and I'd be interested

But yeah, it'd probably blow my budget for the whole year lol!

Entry cost is halved if you commit by end of August from memory (not sure the exact number). Certainly a good incentive to have your ducks lined up in a row for next year. That extra money saved buys a lot in preparation for the race.

Dunno about the fuel, haven't looked into this.

You have a choice several suppliers for tyres, not just one. So you are still restricted, but not nearly as much as previously.

Proddies didn't have drybreak until the 12 Hour came onto the radar either. End of the day though, you can amortise that cost across 2-3 12 hours if you so wish to continue competing. I don't think it's a real issue. The cost of the drybreak system would be minor compared to buying up al your spare compeonents such as brake rotors, pads, wheels, tyres, fuel, ancillaries, and even a spare motor

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by woodduck97

Simon: I like your thinking... I dont know a lot about Prodsports, but I think that would be a good fit... Could you guys run a prodsports car for 12 hours without a massive expense above and beyond a 1 hour ? If you could that would be a possible solution to the grid numbers issue.

I have run cars of similar spec in 24H races, the real challenges are:

1) Costs - we only pay ~£3-4K entry fee's for a 24Hour race here (and that's still a lot!)

2) Tyres - restricting it to a list of suppliers is stupid, with a mixed field, it's always going to cause issues as no single maker will cover the variety of cars that are running, also it usually translates at $$$ backhanders and thus the cost of the tyres goes up

3) same with fuel, yes there are safely implications, but that's the same if it's sole supply or multiple suppliers, but once again the penalty is usually cost.

4) current front running class A 2b cars would have to trim back some pace for a 12 hour, mostly down to fuel consumption/tank size but also tyre life, not really a problem but don't expect them to be doing the same laptimes as they can in a 1 hour.

5) dry-break, yes they cost money, usually it's easy enough to fit them, the real cost is in the pit lane equipment, fuel towers are stupid money (especially for 1 race a year) and I am not sure your rules allow dump-churns? (what we use here, 25L each, max 3 at any stop).

All that said, I think it would be the best way to not only fill up the grid, but actually make a race of it.

the biggest real obstacle would be the costs though, how many people can stump up a $60++K budget for 1 race (and remember, after a 12 hour race the cars going to be pretty fubar).

[B24]

Can there be some kind of agreement on this thread where the prod supporters stop attacking the sports cars becoming part of the B12hr. Its toxic, old and completely pointless.
Every other major 12hr+ enduro runs sports cars and prod cars together and it works, so how about adding productive comments on how to make this event become a mainstay for Austrasian motorsport.
The event organisers have made a few mistakes and will continue to do so but Im pretty sure most other organisers of other great races have experienced the same growing pains. The main point is the event must continue, not stop for it to work.
If they are serious about getting people to the race, a big crowd, they need to have some of the F1 drivers who will be racing in Melbourne a few weeks after the 12hr to compete at the event and do some demo laps in a F1 car.
How many people would show up for the race to see Micheal and Nico in a SLS race against Jenson and Lewis in a McClaren GT3? Then have Stoddard bring his two seater along to have Mark W take a lucky spectator for a lap of Bathurst. Chances are you will recover the costs of the last three years with a standing room only event. If the promotors are reading this ' some corporate tickets please' !
I hope the F3 guys are supporting the race.
I hope the promotors remove the high cost for traders to be part of the event.
Some decent shirts and hats please.
Where is the 12hr yearbook?
Where are stickers for supporters to put on their car to help promote the event?
Why are they not promoting at Superlap? Massive opportunity for exposure going amiss..

[Shane001]

^^ All of the above are great ideas. Sadly I just don't think the 'promoters' have any idea...

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by B24

Can there be some kind of agreement on this thread where the prod supporters stop attacking the sports cars becoming part of the B12hr. Its toxic, old and completely pointless.
Every other major 12hr+ enduro runs sports cars and prod cars together and it works, so how about adding productive comments on how to make this event become a mainstay for Austrasian motorsport.
The event organisers have made a few mistakes and will continue to do so but Im pretty sure most other organisers of other great races have experienced the same growing pains. The main point is the event must continue, not stop for it to work.
If they are serious about getting people to the race, a big crowd, they need to have some of the F1 drivers who will be racing in Melbourne a few weeks after the 12hr to compete at the event and do some demo laps in a F1 car.
How many people would show up for the race to see Micheal and Nico in a SLS race against Jenson and Lewis in a McClaren GT3? Then have Stoddard bring his two seater along to have Mark W take a lucky spectator for a lap of Bathurst. Chances are you will recover the costs of the last three years with a standing room only event. If the promotors are reading this ' some corporate tickets please' !
I hope the F3 guys are supporting the race.
I hope the promotors remove the high cost for traders to be part of the event.
Some decent shirts and hats please.
Where is the 12hr yearbook?
Where are stickers for supporters to put on their car to help promote the event?
Why are they not promoting at Superlap? Massive opportunity for exposure going amiss..

With respect, your dreaming.

No 24 in the world has F1 Drivers in it, their contracts would ban this.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Simon S

With respect, your dreaming.

No 24 in the world has F1 Drivers in it, their contracts would ban this.

I think most of his points have merit. Obviously, it all can't happen in the short term, but it takes some sharp promotions people, who Mr. O'Brien doesn't have. The event is not at the level of the larger races overseas and will consequently struggle to get to that stage, in the present climate.
The merchandising issue was very pertinent. On race day, all I could see was a GRM merchandising trailer flogging off V8 supercar stuff. I couldn't imagine anyone who attended the race being too interested in that. There were no B12 tee shirts, caps etc. It's one of those things that you normally just pick up when you are there at an event, like a rock concert. You know......I was there, I've got the tee shirt, even if you are picking one up for the grandkids etc. Another marketing opportunity lost. James O'Brien could do worse, than look at the ALMS business model to see how they do things. They aren't perfect either, but at least have the runs on the board.

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by Simon S

I have run cars of similar spec in 24H races, the real challenges are:


4) current front running class A 2b cars would have to trim back some pace for a 12 hour, mostly down to fuel consumption/tank size but also tyre life, not really a problem but don't expect them to be doing the same laptimes as they can in a 1 hour.

5) dry-break, yes they cost money, usually it's easy enough to fit them, the real cost is in the pit lane equipment, fuel towers are stupid money (especially for 1 race a year) and I am not sure your rules allow dump-churns? (what we use here, 25L each, max 3 at any stop).


the biggest real obstacle would be the costs though, how many people can stump up a $60++K budget for 1 race (and remember, after a 12 hour race the cars going to be pretty fubar).

I havent been to the event but doesnt the Dubai 24 hr have a bowser to refuel cars? I have seen videos on youtube showing the cars lining up to re fuel. This could be done safely.

As for the budget, in the early days if the 12 hour you had a group of mates who would share the cost just for the privilege of racing at Bathurst. They get more racing done in one event than the whole year of 'normal' racing. The cost per kilometer is pretty good.

Oh... and yeah... the cars are pretty buggered by the end but you factor a rebuild into your budget.

[Simon S]

to a point, maybe, but your not going to get ALMS crowds to Bathurst.

look, there are 7-8 major 24H races at the moment round Europe/Asia, their best bet would be to try and tag on to them, adopt their format/regs/etc (adjusted to bring in local entries)..

before you can make this a truly international event, you need to sell it to the local market first, and to do that you need a local grid of at least 40-50 cars BEFORE you count overseas entries.

Now, there are easily 50+ prodsports cars, hell, back in 2011 there were 45 at Bathurst for the 1 hour, even of you could only attract half of them, that's 20+ more than you had this year.

the promoter of this event needs to get their head round NOT expecting the entrants to foot all the bills of the event, they are NOT cash cows to make a profit out of if you expect the event to grow and become sustainable.

[alfacors]

I'd love to see 20 something ProdSports cars line up. I doubt that would happen anytime soon IMHO.

[Shane001]

Originally Posted by Simon S

the promoter of this event needs to get their head round NOT expecting the entrants to foot all the bills of the event, they are NOT cash cows to make a profit out of if you expect the event to grow and become sustainable.

But see this is the problem with motorsport here in Aus (excluding V8's and F1, and maybe MCM at EC), event organisers aren't interested in anything except the entrants. Often I'll receive supp regs for an event and email back what are the spectator costs so I can let friends etc know, post it up on forums etc, and it's clear from the reply that this is a secondary thought.

But it's not just the organisers to blaim, it's the categories and the competitors as well. We need to be promoting ourselves, but most of the people that race at this level are only interested in themselves and their racing.

Also I did read a rumour a couple of years ago when EC stopped charging entry for state events that the reason they did this was because the cost of insurance was simply too high, and they had to pre purchase it based on estimated attendance. Maybe this is part of the problem also.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Shane001

But see this is the problem with motorsport here in Aus (excluding V8's and F1, and maybe MCM at EC), event organisers aren't interested in anything except the entrants. Often I'll receive supp regs for an event and email back what are the spectator costs so I can let friends etc know, post it up on forums etc, and it's clear from the reply that this is a secondary thought.

But it's not just the organisers to blaim, it's the categories and the competitors as well. We need to be promoting ourselves, but most of the people that race at this level are only interested in themselves and their racing.

Also I did read a rumour a couple of years ago when EC stopped charging entry for state events that the reason they did this was because the cost of insurance was simply too high, and they had to pre purchase it based on estimated attendance. Maybe this is part of the problem also.

Errr... how does an insurance premium go away if the same number of people are attending, but the only difference is that they dont take money?

I would have thought the cost saving of not needing to print tickets, not needing to collect, reconcile & bank money would have been of advantage...

But the question may well be whether there was adequate insurance cover for those that attended

[Shane001]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Errr... how does an insurance premium go away if the same number of people are attending, but the only difference is that they dont take money?

I would have thought the cost saving of not needing to print tickets, not needing to collect, reconcile & bank money would have been of advantage...

But the question may well be whether there was adequate insurance cover for those that attended

I don't know GTR, this is just a rumour I heard, but you could imagine that a paid event and a non paid event may be different categories of insurance. It may have been a loophole that they took advantage of at the time, who knows. The issue was (apparently) for a paid event they had to estimate attendance and the insurance cost was based on this estimate, which based on the amount they were taking in entry fees just wasn't worth it.

I wouldn't be surprised considering the insurance industry in general and the spikes in public liability insurance over the last few years.

[B24]

Originally Posted by Simon S

With respect, your dreaming.

No 24 in the world has F1 Drivers in it, their contracts would ban this.

Everything that is motorsport was once a dream or an idea. It where it all starts but V8SC pursue high level drivers for the Surfers race? From what Im aware of, they (F1)do not compete due to a clash with their own calender so it is a possibility and worth throwing around for discussion.
Even if you take the current drivers out of the equation, there are many drivers who can and would come out. What about Villeneve,Dempsy,Wurtz,etc?

The main point of bringing known drivers to the event is to attract spectators and all that follows.
The promoters fail as they not on the pulse with promoting the event, or, are they not wanting to promote it too much due to the effect it will have on the V8SC 1000. This is possible.
If they were serious, (amongst other things)they would be working with every forum and travel consultant group they could ,to make the 12hr part of global tourists must do events while in Aust. Once they have a idea of numbers they can attract global partners. Am I missing something..

While Im at it "where the hell is the B12hr Club"? LM has it, Im sure others do too. Yes they have facebook, but again more needs to be done instead of 'she'll be right mate..'
Im very pleased to have the race as its the best thing we have but they do need a push to take the event to the next level.

End of rant