How about some two driver races?

Super Tourer · 3 Dec 2001, 11:12 (Ref:181560)

As the BTCC is re-inventing itself - why not include some two driver races in the calendar?

Increase the race distance slightly, keep the tyre stop as in the feature race and carry out a driver change at the same time.

I don't know how far the cars can run on the fuel tanks, but I wouldn't want to see refuelling as this will increase costs and raise safety issues.

I remember the 'old' tourist trophy races when the Rouse RS500's took on their German equivalents from Eggenberger back in the 80's

Two driver races would add some more flavour to the series and provide the opportunity for some interesting 'guest' drivers and some try-outs for new, up and coming drivers.

Clarke Fan · 3 Dec 2001, 11:18 (Ref:181562)

Driver changes have to be the most rediculous element of any motorsport.

**Stephen Green** · 3 Dec 2001, 11:39 (Ref:181565)

Given the requirement to reduce or limit costs in the BTCC, two drivers is hardly going to be well received!

racer69 · 3 Dec 2001, 12:11 (Ref:181584)

In Australia we have two driver events, always have done at Sandown & Bathurst, and they are great, brings in strategy, and you in Australia we are hardly struggling due to two driver races.

There were the rounds of the ETC at Donnington & Silverstone up to 1988, then in '89 and '90 there was the Donnington 500, remember Stig Blomqvist spinning the leading Robb Gravett Sierra on the last corner of the last lap in 1990, handing victory to Andy Rouse/David Sears.

It would have to be a two hour or so race to make a driver change worthwhile, but two driver races worked successfully in the ETCC in the past.

As for driver changes being ridiculous, is Le Mans ridiculous, the Bathurst 1000. They are great, but it is too expensive for a national championship to become a full two-driver championship. International series like the ETCC could (& should i reckon) do.

Super Tourer · 3 Dec 2001, 12:41 (Ref:181594)

I was merely suggesting maybe one or two races per year that would become their 'blue riband' event.

I can't see that this would increase costs dramatically, as the two driver race would just be one longer race at a TOCA meeting as opposed to a sprint and a feature race.

It would give some addded and much needed kudos to the series, particularly if the Tourist Trophy name could be revived.

It would also give the works teams a chance to try a 'young gun' alongside the regular drivers. As the number of BTCC seats is fairly limited, this would provide another opportunity to give some seat time to new or even 'old' drivers.

Who would you like to see as your two driver line ups per team/car?

**Stephen Green** · 3 Dec 2001, 12:45 (Ref:181595)

Fair comment ST. I was thinking along the line that two extra drivers would bump the budget significantly. In principle I don't have anything against running races with two drivers.

Stephen.

RIKB · 3 Dec 2001, 12:52 (Ref:181600)

Personally I dislike two driver races, so I'm happy for the BTCC to leave that sort of thing to the GT boys.

Eddie_harasym · 3 Dec 2001, 13:05 (Ref:181604)

I would like to see an enduro type race, an equivelent of the Bathurst 1000 at Donnington end of season.

Doh, I suppose thats a bit like the old TT trophy

**Stephen Green** · 3 Dec 2001, 14:10 (Ref:181637)

I feel the problem with those types of races for BTCC cars is that by half way stage, they are so far apart in terms of laps completed, that it gets a little boring. It almost gets that way already in the feature race, it's very seldom you get more than two or three cars battling for position.

James Kaye · 3 Dec 2001, 15:11 (Ref:181660)

I did it back in the early 90s in the National Saloons and it wasn't a very pleasant experience. You sit there very nervously as your co-driver takes charge of the car, wondering if he'll fall off.

**Stephen Green** · 3 Dec 2001, 15:16 (Ref:181662)

I imagine you start to bite your nails and hope that you still have fingers left at the end of the session James hahaha. Any news of your plans for next year yet?

Super Tourer · 3 Dec 2001, 15:27 (Ref:181665)

This adds to the spice and drama

On that note how about driver pairing's that would really get on well...

Frank Sytner & Mike Smith
John Cleland & Alain Menu
Plato & Muller
Soper & Cleland

anymore - anyone

MJB RETURNS · 3 Dec 2001, 15:44 (Ref:181673)

red shoes, is that the real james kaye? and no one have a go at me cos remember that james thompson fake?

redshoes · 3 Dec 2001, 19:19 (Ref:181789)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Frank Sytner & Mike Smith
John Cleland & Alain Menu
Plato & Muller
Soper & Cleland

anymore - anyone

Can't have Cleland in 2 cars. Far better to put Phil Bennett in with Soper.

Radisichrox · 3 Dec 2001, 20:45 (Ref:181829)

Some interesting comments there. Instead of running 2 cars with 2 drivers, why not run 1 car with your regular 2 drivers? And like Stephen Green said, the race gets way drawn out by halfway. Why not do what they did in the TOCA shootouts in the early 90s and bring the saftey car out at the halfway point, and then 6 or so laps from the finish!?

BootsOntheSide · 3 Dec 2001, 21:17 (Ref:181843)

"Instead of running 2 cars with 2 drivers, why not run 1 car with your regular 2 drivers? "

We've got few enough cars as it is. The early 2001 races with only 7 cars in the main class are something I never want to see again. Maybe a good appraoch to get something liek this would be to give the Production cars a head start, a la the feature race, and maybe try where possible to get star guest drivers in the Production class, imagine Alain Menu, RIckard Rydell, John Cleland, Smokin Jo etc returning, or guys from other championships, mayeb DTM guys or some of the Australian aces doing it for fun. Maybe one of them could team up with B&Q.

redshoes · 3 Dec 2001, 21:18 (Ref:181844)

Quote:

Originally posted by Radisichrox
Some interesting comments there. Instead of running 2 cars with 2 drivers, why not run 1 car with your regular 2 drivers?

There's barely enough Tourers as it is with 2 per team, you've just halved an already small grid.

Radisichrox · 3 Dec 2001, 21:22 (Ref:181846)

Uh oh... Looks like I've said my stupid thing for the day...

Sorry if I've been misunderstood. I didn't mean that for the entire season, i meant it for just those races, but whatever.

redshoes · 3 Dec 2001, 21:37 (Ref:181859)

It's ok Rad, we knew you didn't mean at every race, it's just that a 4 or 5 car grid for a 90 min race isn't exactly going to draw in the punters

Actually, there is that new Britcar series starting next year using SuperProduction-ish regulations. That's 2 or maybe 3 drivers I think. kpm has the 2 ex-B&Q Integras and RickP should be there in a Civic.

As a 'fun' event I liked the old Tourist Trophy/TOCA Shoutout as we got a good mix of guest drivers and several oversees entrants.

redshoes · 3 Dec 2001, 22:02 (Ref:181872)

Quote:

Originally posted by MJB RETURNS
is that the real james kaye?

Indeed it is.

James, good luck at Bologna this weekend, although quite why anyone would want to race a SuperTourer around what's little more than a car park is beyond me.

Radisichrox · 3 Dec 2001, 22:33 (Ref:181891)

Quote:

Originally posted by redshoes
It's ok Rad, we knew you didn't mean at every race, it's just that a 4 or 5 car grid for a 90 min race isn't exactly going to draw in the punters

Actually, there is that new Britcar series starting next year using SuperProduction-ish regulations. That's 2 or maybe 3 drivers I think. kpm has the 2 ex-B&Q Integras and RickP should be there in a Civic.

As a 'fun' event I liked the old Tourist Trophy/TOCA Shoutout as we got a good mix of guest drivers and several oversees entrants.

Okay, thanks! I agree, though, it really won't draw in the punters, but put some big name guys in some cars, and you'll get some big results. At the TOCA shootout in 1993, Mansell, Warwick, and that Chris Rea guy brought in at least 60,000. There were about 13 cars max in that race at the start, and about 6 or 7 finished. But now, especially now, I don't think that would work.

touringcarnut · 4 Dec 2001, 09:34 (Ref:181992)

The thought of bennett and soper sharing a car!!! they'd have a punch up before they switched! And they wouldn't be able to take each other off!

Eddie_harasym · 4 Dec 2001, 09:57 (Ref:182003)

I know how to make it cheaper, why not have one car with two seats in

I'd like to see in car footage of the Soper/Cleland Astra. Question is who would drive first?

**Stephen Green** · 4 Dec 2001, 11:00 (Ref:182018)

It would have to be Soper. If you let Cleland drive first there wouldn't be a car left for Soper to drive afterwards hahaha.

KA · 4 Dec 2001, 12:59 (Ref:182059)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Fair comment ST. I was thinking along the line that two extra drivers would bump the budget significantly. In principle I don't have anything against running races with two drivers.

Stephen.

..although for the independents,where drivers are having to bring money/sponsors, it can actually make life easier over budgets- two drivers providing half the budget each.....

Once a year would be good- maybe a non-championship race at the end of the year, but I wouldn't want the whole series going that way....

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