How to fix F1?

[bjohnsonsmith]

In 2005, a driver had to use one set of tyres for qualifying and one set for the race.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

In 2005, a driver had to use one set of tyres for qualifying and one set for the race.

I'd forgotten that.
No problem going back to that rule then, it is an F1 tradition.

P.S. Max ran 53 of the 55 laps in Sochi on one set of tyres, pitted to comply with the regulation. Would have been a way better race if he could have just kept going.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I'd forgotten that.
No problem going back to that rule then, it is an F1 tradition.

P.S. Max ran 53 of the 55 laps in Sochi on one set of tyres, pitted to comply with the regulation. Would have been a way better race if he could have just kept going.

In their bid to be more green and cut costs, why don't F1 go back to the 2005 tyre rule? Making seven different compounds can't be cheap and must require energy, not to mention the R&D that went into developing them. One tyre for qualifying and one for racing would surely save a lot of money and energy manufacturing them?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Isn't the Michelin tires for LeMans prototypes designed to double and triple stint which puts them into the 180-280 mile range and F1 races are supposed to be at least 190 miles or so? Seems doable with modern race tire technology.

Richard

Recent rule changes for pit stops kinda ruined the strategy stuff in WEC/ELMS, but before that it was regular that teams could triple stint tyres. IIRC there have been quad stints done before too.

[coppice]

Strategy belongs to endurance racing, as does electric power assistance, 4wd , diesel power , enclosed cockpits and wheels and pit stops. Long races thrive on the intrigue that strategy creates , and endurance racing stimulates technical innovation. And it's about teams much , much more than it is about drivers. Who won Le Mans last year? The answer everybody gives except his mum is not Earl Bamber - it's Porsche .



Grand Prix racing is , and should be far simpler, and used to be . It is about a short race , with overtaking achievable through the driver's skill in exploiting opportunities ,and the team's skill in providing a car fast and reliable enough to enable the driver to shine. F1 is nearly all about drivers- who won world championship in 1976 ? We all know it was James Hunt, but only saddoes like me also say 'in a McLaren M23' ..

[S griffin]

So yeah, most of us agree. Compulsory pitstops ruin the flow of a race and should be dropped, therefore leaving it up to the drivers and teams to decide when to pit

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by coppice

Strategy belongs to endurance racing, as does electric power assistance, 4wd , diesel power , enclosed cockpits and wheels and pit stops. Long races thrive on the intrigue that strategy creates , and endurance racing stimulates technical innovation. And it's about teams much , much more than it is about drivers. Who won Le Mans last year? The answer everybody gives except his mum is not Earl Bamber - it's Porsche .



Grand Prix racing is , and should be far simpler, and used to be . It is about a short race , with overtaking achievable through the driver's skill in exploiting opportunities ,and the team's skill in providing a car fast and reliable enough to enable the driver to shine. F1 is nearly all about drivers- who won world championship in 1976 ? We all know it was James Hunt, but only saddoes like me also say 'in a McLaren M23' ..

1976 was the M23's fourth season, though Ferrari won WCC that year.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

- The F1 team principals held a meeting on Friday evening following FP2 to discuss new ways to try and improve the on-track spectacle, and resolved that they should hold more regular meetings to explore plans for the future.

Among the things discussed were softer tyres, more pitstops, improvements to 'the show'...


We talk about 'bubbles of knowledge' these days, it seems F1 has been stuck in such a thing for at least ten years now, probably longer.

[S griffin]

Why don't they ask the fans? Are they afraid of the answers they will give?

[EffectiveSprinkles]

The 'fans' don't really know beter either. Mostly because the 'fans' as a homogenous group doesn't exist.

[Greem]

Also, every single time a 'fan engagement survey' (or whatever they call it nowadays) is carried out, the way the questionnaire is structured gives predetermined answers and reinforces the inherent bias the people who have asked for it have.

Plus it's always the noisy ones who fill it in, if you see what I mean.

I have this lurking thought that we're at the start of a death spiral for what we currently see as F1. Whether it's 5 years or 10, or more, will depend on those at the top but I reckon the next few years are going to be very choppy and uncomfortable.

[coppice]

'Fans' - retch . Typically people who've watched a bit of F1 on the telly, rarely if ever have seen a live GP , think that F1 started with Senna and Schumacher and know two parts of bugger all about motor sport in a wider sense .



Apt to witter on about the F1 'brand' , are very partisan and go into Facebook meltdown when their favourite is involved in any on track incident , has a mechanical failure ('it's a conspiracy !' ) or gets a new tattoo .



I wouldn't ask them the time of day.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by coppice

I wouldn't ask them the time of day.

It's almost 10 past 7. You're welcome

...although I suspect I don't fit your categorisation very well!

[Armco Bender]

No more live telly coverage of F1 in NZ after this season....the end is nigh..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

No more live telly coverage of F1 in NZ after this season....the end is nigh..

Same here unless you subscribe to Sky or F1.

[Armco Bender]

Yeah its the Sky NZ pay channel thats given up the rights,was no money it for them especially after they pushed back the start time races here start about 1am Sunday morning.
Oh well at least we still got Indycars and V8 Supercars....real racing..

[Moneyseeker]

Problem is that everything is 'optimised ' in F1 now, nothing is left to 'chances which whilst a testament to the preparation and ingenuity to the teams ' makes for a rather predictable race.

Personally ' I would ban all pit to factory contact during the race weekend across all comms and data and simulators.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

personal opinion, but i like pit stops. to each their own of course but i like the flurry of activity.

part of me agrees that mandating stops and compound usage leads to strategy conformity, more so as the season goes on, and (i guess) as we saw with Max in Russia trying something different rarely leads to success.

so on one hand, whats the point?

on the other hand, there is too much conservation philosophy in the sport. no refueling, limit the fuel used, limit the number and more durable engines/PUs etc...that the tires are like butter is kind of the one thing in opposition to this conservation philosophy.

also if a driver gets a flatspot they have to finish the race on it...thats just a different kind of penalty and arguably a more annoying one than an engine change grid penalty because there essentially is no coming back from a flatspot.

tough one imo!

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Greem

Also, every single time a 'fan engagement survey' (or whatever they call it nowadays) is carried out, the way the questionnaire is structured gives predetermined answers and reinforces the inherent bias the people who have asked for it have.

This gets me too!

What is the point of a survey with scripted answers?

[S griffin]

Well it's obvious they want to show everything is alright when it is not

[chunder]

I gave up watching F1 a few years ago.

Can't stand the hybrid cars, they sound tame, look too big and ridiculous and the aero in certain areas is now so utterly ridiculous, the attention to pathetic areas of the wing is emperors new clothes, it looks pathetic, and is almost there ti justify 100 peoples employment to me.

Tyres are woeful, but that is partly not Pirelli's fault.
Drivers are bland, dull and the racing is all fake.

Some of it is OK, but really, like a lot of motorsport, it is restricted to short bursts, most modern racing is so restricted by rules that it makes most of it monumentally tame.

Hence why you have go further afield to find better things to watch.

And cheaper too.

[S griffin]

Seriously do you have anything good to say about anything anymore?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

No more live telly coverage of F1 in NZ after this season....the end is nigh..

Which should mean that you can stream F1 TV.

[Armco Bender]

Which should mean that you can stream F1 TV.

Or I can just spend more time with the sheep which is way more exciting than watching F1..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Or I can just spend more time with the sheep which is way more exciting than watching F1..

What's to compare, assassinating Llamas and bothering Sheep or another F1 race?

[wnut]

I transferred this in from the Ferrari thread where it is probably out of place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles
Yeah, restricting aero works so well. That's why they tried it in 2009 and 2014 and everybody loved it.

This is one of the recurring F1 myths!

The Overtaking Working Group (OWG) determined before the rule changes instituted in 2009 that the biggest obstacle to overtaking and following was the amount of downforce generated by the cars and the resultant wake turbulence. The OWG’s efforts were unsuccessful because the teams managed to claw back an estimated 85% of the downforce reduction by the beginning of the 2009 season, using the larger wings allowed and a loophole that allowed double diffusers.
In 2014 the FIA allowed the introduction of hybrid ERS power units, the weight limit of the cars was gradually increased year on year until it had increased by around 200 kg by 2014 to compensate for the increased mass of the required KERS systems and batteries, this configuration required more downforce to run similar lap times. The rules were changed in 2017, allowing wider tyres and bigger wings to generate more downforce to compensate for the heavy cars which in 2007 now weighed 720kg.
In short the OWG identified the cause of the overtaking problems as too much downforce and wake turbulence, F1 has never introduced effective regulation to deal with the problem of excessive downforce!

So less downforce it would seem would be a legitimate strategy to fix F1's problems!