"Dangerous" Driving

[paddy]

It doesn't matter where you live don't drink and drive, don't speed, don't use a mobile whilst driving and respect other road users. I've seen the consequences of the above too often through my old job and it's not pleasant. I know we all think we are great drivers and everyone else is crap, but that's not the case.
Personally I hope anyone averaging 150kph on a motorway gets a ban. Nothing personal, but you are a danger to other road users.

[GORDON STREETER]

OK Paddy, but I do use my loaf and you don't know the situation of this particular road. Its 114km long and at the moment you are lucky if you see another car either way. I didn't overtake another vehicle and only saw a couple in the opposite carriageway. I know this is no excuse but just to point out that I am not a complete knob-head ! Incidentally I was overtaken by a new Beemer just before the toll gate.
Also if you think every other driver is crap then you will get on fine !!!

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by paddy

It doesn't matter where you live don't drink and drive, don't speed, don't use a mobile whilst driving and respect other road users. I've seen the consequences of the above too often through my old job and it's not pleasant. I know we all think we are great drivers and everyone else is crap, but that's not the case.
Personally I hope anyone averaging 150kph on a motorway gets a ban. Nothing personal, but you are a danger to other road users.

And with respect, thus speaks the voice of authority which is the core problem that's ruined driving!

IF the road is empty: and IF the driver is suitably qualified (by this I mean above average skill and expertise) and IF the vehicle is suitable, then I'm sorry, I question the "Danger to other road users" bit!

If by danger to other road users you mean the unconscious muppett who pulls out of a joining lane without looking and thereafter swerves all over three lanes then I would suggest that this driver is the danger!

What you guys want is to reduce ALL drivers to the same pigeon-holed state of ability: i.e. "A majority of people can't drive properly: ergo we'll reduce the speed limit to 30 MPH on motorways whether you can actually drive correctly or not!"

Speed kills etc etc.

What we all campaigned for back in 1966 (and this included Graham Hill, Sterling Moss and dear old John Gott et al) was a graded driving license.

The pols, of course, ignored the collective wisdom totally: and simply applied a blanket speed limit across the board.

Just because Daddy is rich, our Road Traffic Act (which hasn't changed much since 1948!!) means that a kid can pass his test in the morning and in the afternoon, take to the motorway in a top range Ferrari or Lambo!

With no previous experience of driving ANYTHING on a motorway!

And if you're a "Celeb" the rules are different once again! I note that Amir Khan has just been banned for driving his BMW6 series at up to 140 MPH on a motorway: the pursuing police car couldn't catch him!

42 days ban only! What utter nonsense!

How many footballers earning obscene sums have crashed their top range poser toys? Loads!

The core problem isn't speeding motorists: it's motorists with little or no skill driving, whether at speed or not.

Personally, I'd far prefer to drive on any road surrounded by really experienced race drivers at well over 100 MPH, than surrounded by idiot plastic-muppet cars, insane 4 X4 drivers and Hungarian truck drivers: as I was on Saturday coming back from France on the M20!

At least race drivers have a battery of weapons to avoid accidents; including chucking the whole thing sideways under full control: unlike the white-faced idots driving right up my arse, staring glazy-eyed at my bumper and over-reliant on their badly serviced ABS!

Get real!

[paddy]

I'm not condoning poor driving I'm saying that all bad driving is bad. I know that bad driving kills and speeding is only part of that, but as we only have a one size fits all license then we just have to get on with it. I made a small local journey yesterday during which I encountered 2 people manouvering at between 50 and 60 mph whilst using hand held mobiles and was forced to take avoiding action when a BMW overtook a line of traffic with no regard for anyone else. The car was completely on the wrong side of the road and the driver seemingly oblivious to other road users.
All of these drivers I would guess if asked would regard themselves as in control and good drivers.

[SidewaysFeltham]

And this is because more people can afford to own and drive cars today than ever before.

I totally agree about using mobile phone whilst driving: but then I also believe changing CDs, radio station whatever whilst driving is also arrogant contempt for others.

By allowing the world and his wife to take to the road with the high power cars of today, with only a muppet driving test as a precursor and no incentive to treat driving as a developable skill is sadly typical of today's society: nothing must upset the status quo of the good ol' cash machine for government, oil companies, etc.

One of the worst single culprits, I believe, are insurers who refuse point blank to insure the driver; they insure the car. Personally, I strongly believe that a driver's record should be a permanent matter: not just retrospective for drink driving, e.g.

When I started driving more years ago than I care to admit , if one wanted to go slightly more quickly, then one had to learn certain basic skills: there were few dual carriageways and no motorways and most overtaking was on the "Three Lane" basis, which mant rapidly developing the necessary judgement for distance and speed coordination: or you finished up pretty dead!

Cross-Ply tyres and fading drums brakes as well as and archaic suspension and steering created a learning curve of skill.

Crashing a car, heavily, normally meant serious injury or death as collapsing steering columns and driver-passenger safety cocoons had not been invented.

Engines and gearboxes came right back into the car crushing legs.

Today's basic cars are far too forgiving and tolerant of poor driving techniques: and thus lull drivers into a false sense of security.

Driving along with the windows up tight and AC on, deafened by multi-speakers blasting out insane noise divorces the driver from their environment: which is why (plus poor observation) so many fail to realise emergency vehicles are fast approaching until they have blocked their path.

The faster one drives the more focused one ought to become: I'm a very monotonous and anti-social person to other occupants when driving distances at speed!

All that said, blaming traffic accidents on speeding (which is all most police authorities bleat) and every government spokesman and woman since Barbara Castle is not only a crass mistatement of fact it is a con, as even a cursory analysis of the UK statistics proves.

Worse, it fails to address the core problems and fails to commence implementation of viable solutions.

Obviously, incorrect speed in any circumstance can be dangerous: even 30 MPH.

Still, in the South West and East of the UK in a few years more, since most major roads will be as gridlocked as most urban roads already are, the problem will self-solve!

Stationary traffic won't cause that many moving vehicle incidents!

[bella]

don't go tarring all of us who listen to loud music and who don't look like we're on the planet with the same brush - we're looking half a mile further up the road than you are, cause you're too busy looking at us to see whether we're paying attention...

[GORDON STREETER]

Well Paddy you have certainly wound two of us up and I would agree with everything Sideways has said. I don't know what your previous job was Police/Ambulance whatever, but I would think that most frequent posters on here are not insensitive to the terrible carnage that happens on the road.
When I was a 15 year old green behind the ears apprentice I worked at a main road garage that would drag in wrecked cars, and one of the first I went to there was a headless body in it ! I was also witness to a steel carrying jacknife artic that cut a ragtop Peugeot and the occupants in half in France.
Both of these were not caused by excessive speed.
I suppose you have been a law abiding citizen all your life and never done anything wrong like illegal parking/mot out of date/bulb blown, I could go on ! You are preaching to the converted on this forum as I would put money on saying that just about everybody on 10/10ths has broken some motoring law over the years,but not necessarily been convicted. I do not drive like a nutter on the road but will admit to quite a few speeding offences in the last 44 years. During that time I have never been involved in an accident of my making ,but I don't know how long some of the newer what I call "PlayStation" drivers will get away with it, like the Golf GTI that overtook a traffic jam on the M6 when we were going to Knockhill. 90+MPH on the hard shoulder and no it didn't have a blue light on it !!!!!

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by bella

don't go tarring all of us who listen to loud music and who don't look like we're on the planet with the same brush - we're looking half a mile further up the road than you are, cause you're too busy looking at us to see whether we're paying attention...

I rather doubt that Bella, 'cos when one's driving single seater race cars at nearly two hundred miler per hour it does sharpen the old focus, since the bendy bits and other cars arrive far quicker!

As Guy Edwards said to me one day in the pits at Brands (he'd just taken delivery of his sparkling new Lola F5000 prior to which he'd been pedalling a Lola T2200 2 Litre Sports Racer) when I asked him how it was, "Paddock comes up F****** quick!"

At that time Rollinson and Redman shared the absolute Club Circuit lap record at 44 secs dead. In F5000s, as a reference. And BTW.

The deep ingrained learned habit of constantly looking far ahead, at the mirrors, at the instruments and at pit signals and marshall's flag signals, plus planning one's course management and racing strategy vis a vis positioning to other cars is never, ever forgotten.

How anyone can drive safely detached from their environment, tyre noise, engine noise, external warning sounds I know not. OK poodling along in traffic nose to tail: not good when really motoring, for me.

Each to his own.

[LYNX]

Try and avoid the school run, doesn't matter which country you're in, the little blighters kick up a fuss and distract the driver!

[Eddy V]

Calm down a bit guys and girls.
My thread, so:

Just do as I do: I drive with my eyes closed as I'm an old fart who is scared stiff on the road.

I never drive too fast and always obey the law.

[bella]

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

How anyone can drive safely detached from their environment, tyre noise, engine noise, external warning sounds I know not. OK poodling along in traffic nose to tail: not good when really motoring, for me.

Each to his own.

it depends how your mind works. if you're the type of person that concentrates the hardest in silence, then fair enough. everyone has a different method of focus. plus most of us can't afford to drive at 99% most of the time!

don't be patronising. just cause you know how you work doesn't mean you know how everyone else does. and going anywhere near a racing car doesn't automagically make you a better driver either. that goes for all of you!

[djinvicta]

Nicely said Bella. Im all for Marshalls on the hard shoulder of GB motorways with yellow, blue and red flags, volunteers of course, with the ability to issue bans and fixed penaltys for overtaking during traffic jams etc; Grannys blue flagged in the outside lanes, with red flag bans for daily abusers.
Rolling starts for motorway closures with penaties at service areas for naughty boys and girls

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by paddy

Personally I hope anyone averaging 150kph on a motorway gets a ban. Nothing personal, but you are a danger to other road users.

Was that a typo? You did mean 1540mph, didn't you?

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by bella

don't be patronising.

I wasn't trying to be, Bella. You made certain assumptions, viz:

we're looking half a mile further up the road than you are, cause you're too busy looking at us to see whether we're paying attention...

I merely set out to correct your erroneous statements.........

and going anywhere near a racing car doesn't automagically make you a better driver either. that goes for all of you!

Oh, I quite agree: the last person I'd want to be stuck in a group of cars with would be someone like Eddie Irvine, Patrese, Petterson, Rhindt and Jim Hunt: when they started out!

However, my core point was that experienced race drivers have developed and honed certain driving skills well above the level of the average motorway cruiser.

There are bold drivers: and old drivers: but there are few old bold drivers!

[terence]

Could'nt agree more Sideway's,RE we are more aware of whats going on ahead rather than whats directly in front of us. 150 KPH? a little under the ton,what modern car's are there that are more than capable of cruising/stopping from these moderate speeds?

[Asp]

Mod Note - This has come from a thread about requirements for driving abroad in Trackside

Originally Posted by bella

it depends how your mind works. if you're the type of person that concentrates the hardest in silence, then fair enough. everyone has a different method of focus.

Exactly, I can't stand silence, I have to have some noise in my car. Now, I don't turn it up so loud I can't hear anything outside, and if I did I wouldn't think I'd have any eardrums left yet - but I find it more relaxing.

One thing I will partially agree on - I tend not to listen to "talkie" radio when driving (unless it's the GP on 5Live). Firstly, you have to concentrate more on the radio to understand it, taking some concentration off the road; and secondly you do have to have it loud to hear it against the road noise etc...

[bella]

i dunno, there's nothing like the m11 and a good political arguement with the radio

i have my music on extremely loud, but i do most of my longer than 3 minute journeys on motorways. someone tell me how hearing my engine note then will be of benefit... especially since it's a diesel, and all bets are off then anyway cause engine noise has little to do with power output anyway. drive a car for a while and you just know when to change gear without engine noise or looking at the rev counter.

to be quite honest, most of the dangerous driving i see is just because we teach dodgy motorway etiquette here. if we teach it at all. which i believe is a topic that has been covered extensively in this forum already

[paddy]

No Gordon I'm not perfect by any means and I agree with much that has been written on here by you and others. My point is that all drivers need to drive for themselves and for other road users. It's often the innocent person minding their own business and driving well and legally who gets wiped out by the accident caused by someone else.
In my view poor overtaking is probably the biggest cause of accidents that I have attended along with pulling out of side roads.
There should be grades of driving license and the basic test should be more demanding and rigorous, but at present we have to deal with what we have.

I hope I haven't upset anyone too much I was just entering the debate. Sorry if I caused offence, sometimes engage keyboard before brain!