[Official] Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2018 - Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 4 of 21

[steve nielsen]

Both Max and Daniel reprimanded by the FIA

[Aysedasi]

I confess I called it against Max when I first saw it and was a bit surprised when the commentators laid it firmly at Daniel's door.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I confess I called it against Max when I first saw it and was a bit surprised when the commentators laid it firmly at Daniel's door.

when you see the outside view Max realy did not move that much, the onboard justy makes it seem that way because Daniel is moving that much

[Aysedasi]

Maybe Steve, it just seemed like two clear movements to me. OK, small ones, but enough to sell the dummy, I guess and Daniel fell for it in a big way.

[Moneyseeker]

Have to say I enjoyed Di Rests as co-comm on Sky, good insight and awareness and more up to speed on how the current cars behave than MB.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Akrapovic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fA0cmvNmM

Good analysis of the incident frame by frame here.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Maybe Steve, it just seemed like two clear movements to me. OK, small ones, but enough to sell the dummy, I guess and Daniel fell for it in a big way.

Which resulted in Max increasing the risk in that situation. That’s were he makes problems for himself. When to chose to be risky, with your team mate is not the time.

I’m not massively blaming here, just saying something that I think he needs to start considering more.

[Aysedasi]

I agree. He's an out and out racer for sure, but he has to remember he's not the only one out there. Daniel is capable of giving as good as he gets - and right now, he's clearly just as quick as Max in that car.

[Paradise City]

Max does alot of dancing with his car. Almost Gilles Villenueve-ish.

Max' racecraft ozzes character - but it gets him into trouble alot.

[Kempi]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

he moved BEFORE the braking zone, Daniels DRS closed as Max moved left

so Max did nothing whrong here

I think Daniel would'nt have made that corner even if Max was not there

He moved twice. And then DR said: no more of this BS and simply left his braking a little late. I thought it was an excellent move by DR. This was bound to happen at some point because Max has gotten away with too much. This being between teammates was not expected but the other two candidates for such a move are fighting for the championship. Which neither RB driver now likely will this season but maybe Max now learns the hard way that people will stop making up for his mistakes (and some times deliberate moves like moving twice at 340kph or driving into his teammate early in the race).

[Articus]

It's hard to point blame solely on Dan, even though Dan is the one who hit Max from behind

What seems clear from the video and onboards, is that when Max moved fully in front of Ric, Ric had complete front end wheel lockup. This is because of the loss of front end aero when you follow a car closely.

People forget that these cars are so heavily dependent on aero, and that aero load allows them to stomp on the brake pedal as hard as they do. I really don't see what Ric could have done. He was fully on the brakes, when suddenly the downforce was removed from his front wing.

That type of accident is just a dynamic of the cars heavily dependent on aero.

Although Max does seem immature out on the track...He often seems to force the chasing driver to stay behind, or crash trying to overtake.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Bonehead move from Vettel, to be honest.

As much as I like to see drivers going for it, I thought it was an impetuous move. He missed out on a podium finish and much needed points against Hamilton in China. It's still early days, with only four races in and securing second place and building up a points lead over Hamilton was just what he needed to do.

[Aysedasi]

It would have been the sensible thing to do, I'll agree with that. But if there's a chance of a win, I like to see a driver go for it....

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Max does alot of dancing with his car. Almost Gilles Villenueve-ish.

Max' racecraft ozzes character - but it gets him into trouble alot.

LOL ... oozes recklessness is more accurate.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It would have been the sensible thing to do, I'll agree with that. But if there's a chance of a win, I like to see a driver go for it....

Well the upshot is Vettel has failed again to get a podium finish, despite having got pole and dominated the last two races. The result is Hamilton is now in the lead, all be it with 4 points and that will give him a psychological advantage.

[Aysedasi]

True enough.... Personally I prefer that outcome though - although I guess he won't. At present, Ferrari seem to have the advantage, so having him chasing is better IMO than having him taking too big a lead at this stage.

[steve_r]

Last years race was mayhem, and his years was even better. I'm a convert. Build houses over Silverstone, plant trees on Spa, turn Monaco into a car park, just make sure we come back to this track again next year!

Verstappen did look like he weaved around on the straight, so I was surprised to hear the commentators balme Ricciardo. I'm undecided who's fault it was really, as there never looked like a move was going to be on up the inside. Both to blame to some degree.

Both of them being forced to apologise to the staff as Red Bull factory is a little strange though. Like Naughty school boys.

LeClerc - fantastic. As was Perez.

Nice to see the Renaults showing good pace as well.

Gutted for Bottas.

Despite a poor start to teh season, Hamilton is in the WDC lead. Vettel must be wondering how that has happened.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

True enough.... Personally I prefer that outcome though - although I guess he won't. At present, Ferrari seem to have the advantage, so having him chasing is better IMO than having him taking too big a lead at this stage.

Ferrari do have the advantage and I would have thought they wouldn't want to be in the situation where they are having to chase. They want to be out in front, winning and consolidating.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Articus

It's hard to point blame solely on Dan, even though Dan is the one who hit Max from behind

What seems clear from the video and onboards, is that when Max moved fully in front of Ric, Ric had complete front end wheel lockup. This is because of the loss of front end aero when you follow a car closely.

People forget that these cars are so heavily dependent on aero, and that aero load allows them to stomp on the brake pedal as hard as they do. I really don't see what Ric could have done. He was fully on the brakes, when suddenly the downforce was removed from his front wing.

That type of accident is just a dynamic of the cars heavily dependent on aero.

Although Max does seem immature out on the track...He often seems to force the chasing driver to stay behind, or crash trying to overtake.

Good post. Personally, I think Ric should be shopping himself. Today's performance by his teammate should clinch the decision, if an opportunity to sign elsewhere presents itself.

[Taxi645]

To people who think it's about immature driving consider the following. Max knew his tires were colder because of the later pitstop. He knew that he had to keep Daniel behind him to make headway. Daniel equally realised that wth his warmer tires this was a good chance to make his move and pushed through.

The result was unfortunate and avoidable but we want to see racing don't we? The communication from the team didn't exactly urge them to be sensible "go get him again" and I feel there were one or two occasions thay could've used to offset their strategies a bit to get them out of each others hair in stead of keeping them together and encouring to having another go.

[wolfhound]

The stewards have been busy with a list of penalties.
Sirotkin 3 grid place drop in Spain and 2 points on his license for hitting Perez on the first lap.
Kevin Magnussen was given a 10 sec time penalty plus 2 points on his license (total 8 for last 12 months) for a late race clash with Pierre Gasly
Oh and the drivers of cars 3 & 33 were given a reprimand for their clash at turn 1.

That does not include all the others who were through their doors.
Is that lot a record for one GP?

[ASCII Man]

Did Raikkonen serve a penalty for punting Ocon out? I must've missed that part.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Did Raikkonen serve a penalty for punting Ocon out? I must've missed that part.

I don't think so, it was on the list for investigation after the race, but the stewards were pretty busy after the race so maybe they forgot about it.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Did Raikkonen serve a penalty for punting Ocon out? I must've missed that part.

That was very clearly Ocon's fault.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

That was very clearly Ocon's fault.

Oh, that was a good one! Thank you!