[Official] Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2018 - Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 4 of 21

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Oh, that was a good one! Thank you!

From the stewards report:

Fact Car 31 collided with car 7 in turn 3.

Offence Alleged causing a collision in breach of Article 2d of Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.

Decision No further action.

Reason The Stewards heard from Esteban Ocon, the driver of car 31, Kimi Raikkonen, driver of car 7 and the team representatives. The Stewards examined video evidence. The driver of car 7 and his team representative conceded that the collision was typical of a first lap racing “incident”. The driver of car 31 stated that the last vision he had of car 7 was on the straight after turn 2 which the two cars had successfully negotiated and that he had not seen car 7 on the inside into turn 3. The driver of car 31 accepted the comments of the stewards that a driver should not assume another car is not in his proximity just because he cannot see one, as it is well known that vision from the current cars is not optimum in some positions

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Oh, that was a good one! Thank you!

Ocon fan? Kimi was about 95% alongside Ocon, how can that not be considered enough? The only reason he was only about 50% up at mid-apex is because Kimi took enough speed in to get the pass done but not bash into Ocon on exit.

Ocon took enough speed in to use the full track with no consideration for leaving any space.

To me there's no question, it's 90/10 Ocons fault.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

True enough.... Personally I prefer that outcome though - although I guess he won't. At present, Ferrari seem to have the advantage, so having him chasing is better IMO than having him taking too big a lead at this stage.

I don't know I think it's pretty close. Merc just didn't capitilise on the last few races so well, this time they did. Hamilton was closing on Seb for quite a lot of laps until he locked up and ruined his tyres. Then Bottas had stronger pace the Seb and was closing in.

The other major point is look at Kimi... I think at one point he was almost a minute behind Seb and lapping 2-3secs a lap slower. You think Kimi is a 3sec a lap slower driver than Bottas? Seb was just having a really strong performance but at the end of the race it may have been very close with both the Mercs closing up.

It's at this time of year Vettel should be getting as many points as he can because we all know Merc will get their car sorted by the Summer break and be the fastest at the end of the year. Hamilton won't stay behind Bottas for long either. Vettel will end up losing the championship because of silly incidents like this and Singapore was it where he locks up trying to take the lead and finishes 4th to Lewis who he should have beat. Or China ending up absolutely nowhere.

Sure Hamilton did an even worse lockup in his race but he often recovers from this sort of thing (sometimes luck, sometimes just because he's in the fastest car).

[Kempi]

China was because of the damage after being hit by Verstappen. The cameras showed the underfloor being torn up.

Baku: yes, he should have stayed put, especially seeing that Bottas then got that blown tire. But he wanted to win outright, which is ok. Yes, it cost him but if that it is in the end, I do not think he will be worried too much about losing the championshop when going for a win in the 4th race of the season.

[S griffin]

Race seemed to drag on at times, until the final restart. Gutted for Bottas, I agree with Niki, how did the marshals miss that debris during a SC that seemed to last an eternity? Vettel was right to give it a go, with 4 WCs behind him what's he got to lose? Hamilton in the right place at the right time at the end

Kimi did well to recover from that first lap incident to take second, even if it was a bit fortunate. Shame Ocon didn't see him on the first lap it seems. Also well done Checo on getting a podium

Either RBR driver could have avoided the incident. Shame as their battles before were close but fair, despite once rubbing wheels.

Well Leclerc on getting his first points finish, finally we are seeing his talent. Fred showed his class by getting his two wheeled McLaren back to the pits on the first lap, and charging back up to 7th despite a 'significantly damaged' floor. And good to see Stroll getting his and Williams first points of the season

Finally anyone else got annoyed by how the on screen graphics seemed to mess up at times during the race?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Verstappen did look like he weaved around on the straight, so I was surprised to hear the commentators balme Ricciardo. I'm undecided who's fault it was really, as there never looked like a move was going to be on up the inside. Both to blame to some degree.

look at the camera on the straight, not at the onboard, Max realy did not move that much, it seemed like it on the onboard because Ricciardo was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36YFQTFzZwU

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

look at the camera on the straight, not at the onboard, Max realy did not move that much, it seemed like it on the onboard because Ricciardo was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36YFQTFzZwU

He moves a full car width. Watch the white lines - he has 1/3 of his car over the line and then moves back over the line to give around 2/3 of a car width to the line.

I agree it is not that much, and it certainly is not 100% Maxs fault, however he did move the full width of a car. The rules don't say "Don't move twice, unless it's a little bit then that's ok" - rather than you can't move twice. Moving in reaction like that is just blocking, not defending.

DR however should've seen that coming. Max was always going to do that, and that gap was never ever going to open up. So steaming up like that was asking for an incident. It was not smart driving.

Max moved twice, and moved late. However, it wasn't a huge move. DR seemed unprepared for a car braking in the braking zone, which is just stupid. Neither driver comes out looking particularly smart or even competent in that one. Both drivers have bags of skill, but that's the sort of incidents you have in Formula 4, not Formula 1.

[Peter Mallett]

I never understood how Max got out in front of Daniel after those stops.

[TrapezeArtist]

An interesting race, albeit both enhanced and spoiled by the safety car.

Can you imagine what the haters would have said if Hamilton had thrown away the result like Vettel did? Instead they had to settle for "undeserved" and "lucky", as if no driver has ever gained places by a bit of good fortune before. Equally, I wouldn't criticise Vettel much because the cars are difficult to drive in those circumstances and he just pushed it too hard. Prost wouldn't have made that mistake though; he would have recognised that he was going to increase his championship lead and played it safe.

It was heart-breaking for Bottas. He was going well. Then the wait-for-a-safety-car strategy worked perfectly for him. Then he was innocently robbed of a race win. (I think he would be leading the championship if the puncture hadn't happened.) I'm inclined to agree with Niki Lauda, that with about 8 racing laps thrown away to the safety car, the marshals should have been able to get that bit of debris of the track. If we could see it on the television, for sure it would have been visible to a marshal.

Now for the Red Bull fratricide. I thoroughly enjoyed their antics earlier in the race. Super hard racing and just (just!!!!!!) enough leeway to avoid an accident. Then finally they both got a dose of red mist at the same time. Max does need reining in a bit. On the other hand, Dan seemed to be attempting the impossible. The stewards got it right with a knuckle-rap for both. I would love to be a fly on the wall when they are both summoned to CH's office.

I'm beginning to find it a bit annoying when a first lap bump and an early pitstop puts a driver (Raikkonen this time) on a strategy that has the potential to beat others who are following something more conventional. How long before someone decides on a first lap pitstop for purely strategic reasons? And then how long before half a dozen cars are doing it?

Congrats to Perez, Leclerc and any others who dodged the chaos, kept it out of the wall and ended up with a flattering result.

[Peter Mallett]

Oh and......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZelPcA2Dz2c

[Greem]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

It was heart-breaking for Bottas. He was going well. Then the wait-for-a-safety-car strategy worked perfectly for him. Then he was innocently robbed of a race win. (I think he would be leading the championship if the puncture hadn't happened.) I'm inclined to agree with Niki Lauda, that with about 8 racing laps thrown away to the safety car, the marshals should have been able to get that bit of debris of the track. If we could see it on the television, for sure it would have been visible to a marshal.

We could all see it *afterwards*. I'm not entirely convinced it was there for that long - given that drivers (Vettel for one) were dictating the exact position of pieces of debris with millimetre precision to their secretaries whilst doing nearly 150kph, I think it came of someone's car the last time around.

[karting]

Originally Posted by Greem

We could all see it *afterwards*. I'm not entirely convinced it was there for that long - given that drivers (Vettel for one) were dictating the exact position of pieces of debris with millimetre precision to their secretaries whilst doing nearly 150kph, I think it came of someone's car the last time around.

I’m 99% sure the debris came from The Toro Rosso of Piere after K Mag forced him into the start finish straight wall after the restart (which K Mag has since been given points on his licence and a Penalty for

[Mike Bell]

In his (excellent) interview with C4 right at the end of their broadcast, LH was asked the likelyhood of spotting that debris when flat out on the straight. Apologies if I’m not completely correct, but from memory the answer was basically ‘No Way’, due the vibration and buffeting. He added that when following VB at that point, VB’s car was ‘a blur’.....

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

In his (excellent) interview with C4 right at the end of their broadcast, LH was asked the likelyhood of spotting that debris when flat out on the straight. Apologies if I’m not completely correct, but from memory the answer was basically ‘No Way’, due the vibration and buffeting. He added that when following VB at that point, VB’s car was ‘a blur’.....

Yes it was an excellent interview and yes that's about right.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I never understood how Max got out in front of Daniel after those stops.

Danny Ric had a very poor outlap, be it getting tyres warmed or traffic (or combination) I am not sure.

[djinvicta]

S Griffin.. Agreed, the "on screen" graphics were unreadable on my screen. Also, what's this showing "replay laps" randomly during a live race? Crap..

[Peter Mallett]

I'm ata aloss to know why the graphics have to be at the side of the screen anyway. It blocks a fair amount of real estate. Far better when at the bottom of the screen.

[steve_r]

Lots of the drivers seemed to be having trouble on fresh rubber. I think that is one of the reasons why Bottas stayed out so long. I think in the channel 4 commentary, either DC or Karun Chandhok said that the drivers who had not stopped were basically staying on old tyres just in case there is a safety car.

It seemed that the usual "Undercut" was not really possible or effective? Perhaps someone has analysed the lap times to confirm this?

Best race we have had for ages. So unpredictable - even the usual strategies were thrown out the window.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Lots of the drivers seemed to be having trouble on fresh rubber. I think that is one of the reasons why Bottas stayed out so long. I think in the channel 4 commentary, either DC or Karun Chandhok said that the drivers who had not stopped were basically staying on old tyres just in case there is a safety car.

It seemed that the usual "Undercut" was not really possible or effective? Perhaps someone has analysed the lap times to confirm this?

Best race we have had for ages. So unpredictable - even the usual strategies were thrown out the window.

It was unpredictable, which is the main reason why I enjoyed it. I said it last year and I'll say it again but Baku is like an IndyCar street race, largely because of that unpredictability.

[VIVA GT]

As I spent the day at The BTCC Meeting at Donington (thanks Motorbase) I didn't see the race live, but had recorded it. I did manage to avoid all information about the Grand Prix yesterday, but knew that I'd not be able to steer clear of this forum today. This left me with two options, stop up late and watch it when the family had gone to bed (and I was allowed the remote control) or to get up early this morning to watch it before I went to work.
I eventually decided to let fate intervene and go to bed, but if I woke up in time, I'd watch the race this morning.
It's not often I say that 'I was glad to get up at 4:30 this morning' but today I really was. Watching the race without any prior knowledge about what had happened was most entertaining, what a great way to start the week!

[Skam85]

https://twitter.com/f1media/status/9...335113216?s=21

Big boost in crowd numbers which is good to see. Shows the multitudes aren’t asking for refunds despite the Halo

Baku has definitely put itself on my F1 race bucket list. Seems like the fans agree and with two exciting races in as many years it looks like Baku is here for a while. Great stuff!

[Peter Mallett]

I've never seen the race before. I have spent time in Baku over the years so it was interesting to see the changes since my time there. As to the race? I'd have to say that it was good, but was it due to the circuit or the safety cars? If the latter, don't forget the same thing happened in China on a different type of circuit. And if the circuit is the cause of the safety cars then there may be a fundamental problem.

Going back to 2010 the two Red Bulls clashed in Turkey, giving Lewis the race win so a bit of coincidence there.

[B0U170NS]

Yet again Baku provides a fantastic race. Please can we have Monaco ditched and return to Baku again instead!

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I've never seen the race before. I have spent time in Baku over the years so it was interesting to see the changes since my time there. As to the race? I'd have to say that it was good, but was it due to the circuit or the safety cars? If the latter, don't forget the same thing happened in China on a different type of circuit. And if the circuit is the cause of the safety cars then there may be a fundamental problem.

In many ways I don't like circuits that have barriers right up to the edge of the track. However I have to acknowledge that it seems to be the only way of persuading the drivers to drive only on the track. In my ideal world, kerbs would be a narrow (2-9 inches) bit of concrete to stop the tarmac crumbling at the edge. Beyond that would be grass, followed by energy-absorbing barrier, followed by a rigid barrier.

F1 drivers are very good at driving up to what they perceive as the limit of the track and no further. When that limit is an armco barrier, that's what they go to (successfully, 99.9% of the time). When that limit is the edge of the artificial grass, just outside of the grasscrete, which is just outside of the painted kerb, which is just outside of the white kerb, that's where they will go to. And if the risk of an accident if they go even further is minimal, they will also take a much bigger risk of going beyond that too.

So if the only alternatives offered by Mr Tilke are armco barriers or vast car parks with a painted-on track, I'll have to express a reluctant preference for the armco.

[GT6]

Originally Posted by B0U170NS

Yet again Baku provides a fantastic race. Please can we have Monaco ditched and return to Baku again instead!

As i said before that would be the choice of most fans on here but unfortunately the race at monaco is not there for the race, if you can call it that, but for the sponsors and money men. Perhaps it should be treated as a separate race not part of the F1 series, i am sure it will still survive on it's own. What do others on here think?