Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Deleted]

My choice of words might've been incorrect, but the article was about privateers P1s which Glickenhaus is in any case, so they did fail to mention them.

[Akrapovic]

Glickenhaus also said they were worried about money. Although he's a well off man, he's not rich enough to continually compete with the P1s.

[Graham Goodwin]

Completely correct - I DID forget. - Now corrected - But the information released by Jim Glickenhaus does NOT suggest an entry into the LMP1 Privateer class - He has talked openly about sourcing a Bosch Hybrid system, that's not, currently at least (no hybrid pun intended) allowed in the sub-class!

[GingerPixel]

That article has made me utterly depressed about the state of LMP1.

[J Jay]

I can think of a more fitting emotion than depression - one that involves bashing my head against the nearest wall.

At the very least the ACO should have contingencies for LMP1 without manufacturers, no one wants to see it happen but the possibility cannot be ignored.

[GingerPixel]

Indeed. I am fully aware that theres more to it than this, but in my mind theres an image of the folks at Rebellion et al waking up every morning thinking, "what's the f**king point?".

The same goes for the grid warmers in F1 I guess.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Rumor is IMSA's looking at the Elan NP01 for the new Lites car. Do not know if there's any bite to the rumor, but it makes sense - the current car is getting a touch old, the NP01 is built by the same provider, runs the same engine, and can theoretically with the right tuning hit similar lap times. And it fits in with IMSA's move towards keeping everything closed-top.

I don't see that happening. The NP01 maybe used as an L2 car. The chassis designation is for a NASA Prototype. Any new Lites car will be built by elan. And yes, it would have a closed-top.

[FormulaFox]

My most reliable source has told me that a meeting in Paris between P1-L/P2 manufacturers and the ACO got extremely heated over the lack of interest in P1-L. It was made very clear that the teams have no interest in committing P1-L since it is to be revamped in 2017/18 and they don't have the slightest inkling of what will change. The anger over the restricted P2 class also came to a head, with the fact that the Gibson spec P2 engine won't be ready until LATE 2016 causing a boilover of the existing tensions.

The ACO has promised to evaluate the concerns brought up by the teams, come up with a NEW plan, and present it in another meeting in the near future.

Restricted P2 looks like it may already be on the way out.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

The same goes for the grid warmers in F1 I guess.

Atleast they get a huge pile of cash from Bernie.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Atleast they get a huge pile of cash from Bernie.

Are you talking about Ferrari or Red Bull?

[Rcz]

So your saying LMP1 privateer class has no interest, despite people saying many people saying P2 teams are being forced into that class?

DPis ironically could be the one to get a massive boost from this mess, even though I think the chassis restrictions may hamper that class too.

Guess will see in 2017.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

So your saying LMP1 privateer class has no interest, despite people saying many people saying P2 teams are being forced into that class?

The ACO has outright admitted they wanted the P2 manufacturers to move into P1-L. But it's not working out because of the question mark over the future rules. It's looking like they'll be bringing P1-L and P2 closer together.

DPis ironically could be the one to get a massive boost from this mess, even though I think the chassis restrictions may hamper that class too.

DPi is going to be hampered by IMSA's dislike of "true" racing teams more than anything else. I have it on good authority that their recent implementation of further restrictions on test times is in response to ONE prospective 2017 team's plans for a near F1-level(pre-restriction) testing program.

[Pontlieue]

The lack of LMP1 privateers worries me. WEC is looking healthy right now, but if VW decides to pull the plug on both LMP1 programms, then it looks quite bad for LMP1-H.

Combined with the almost spec formula that is introduced for LMP2 in 2017, WEC risks ending up with a similarily uninspiring top class as IMSA. And that would be a shame.

Sure, there's a lot of ifs in this scenario, but relying on manufacturers is always risky.

[TF110]

Theres to be talks in Bahrain or post Bahrain on lmp1, so we'll see what comes of that. These guys need to have a strong, loud voice to change things.

[J Jay]

Now this could be - and probably is - my brain on twin ERS-K, but Andrew Cotton's editor piece in the latest issue of RCE talks about a possible/desired 30MJ reduction for the factory cars to slow them down*. Although the context didn't allude to privateer LMP1 (it was mentioned within a discussion on "gentleman" agreements within sportscar racing), I couldn't help but think that this would be the scale of reduction that would get the non-factory cars to within a second or two, at least for the first year.

*Please don't shoot me Sypderman, I'm just the messenger

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Now this could be - and probably is - my brain on twin ERS-K, but Andrew Cotton's editor piece in the latest issue of RCE talks about a possible/desired 30MJ reduction for the factory cars to slow them down*. Although the context didn't allude to privateer LMP1 (it was mentioned within a discussion on "gentleman" agreements within sportscar racing), I couldn't help but think that this would be the scale of reduction that would get the non-factory cars to within a second or two, at least for the first year.

*Please don't shoot me Sypderman, I'm just the messenger

Never fear J Jay. I very rarely shoot the messenger. I'm just not fearful of speaking my mind, and my mind is currently appalled at this suggestion. If this happens I shall watch the WEC from a distance.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I'm just not fearful of speaking my mind, and my mind is currently appalled at this suggestion. If this happens I shall watch the WEC from a distance.

and I shall not watch it at all

Graham Goodwin, given your access within these people as a top sportscar's journalist , can you tell the bigshots there that the fans don't want any slowing down at all for next year, at least, please?

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Never fear J Jay. I very rarely shoot the messenger. I'm just not fearful of speaking my mind, and my mind is currently appalled at this suggestion. If this happens I shall watch the WEC from a distance.

Cool. I'm not fond of such a reduction either by the way, but I do feel something drastic needs to be done to ensure privateer support when the factories go away (and I think they will eventually, so it's better to be prepared than to have to think of something quickly at the time).

Originally Posted by Artur

and I shall not watch it at all

Graham Goodwin, given your access within these people as a top sportscar's journalist , can you tell the bigshots there that the fans don't want any slowing down at all for next year, at least, please?

If both of you would indulge my penchant for devil's advocate, what would you propose to get more privateers into LMP1? It's clear that simply forcing them out of LMP2 hasn't worked. If slowing down the factory cars is not an option then what else could be done to entice more teams to take part in the top class?

[rich07]

Let's rename LMP2 to LMP1-L.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Cool. I'm not fond of such a reduction either by the way, but I do feel something drastic needs to be done to ensure privateer support when the factories go away (and I think they will eventually, so it's better to be prepared than to have to think of something quickly at the time).

I respectfully disagree. I think it is a myth that the manufacturers leave at a substantially greater rate than privateers. In general, the privateers are much more susceptible to funding fluctuations.
For me it much more important to understand what it is that manufacturers really want and make rules (stable) that cater to those needs. Privateers will have different needs. Create a separate class if necessary , but I'm firmly against cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

[TF110]

If they reduce it too far the cars wont be much faster than new lmp2's. I think theyll wait to see what next year is like with the 10mj fuel reduction.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by rich07

Let's rename LMP2 to LMP1-L.

That would be even bigger mockery than the current unneccesary sub division of LMP1 into two, at least todays hybridless sub class trophy P1s are actual P1s in structual form. Renaming spec-LMP2s as (even sub) P1s would be sacrilege.

I would rather even demote privateer P1s into LMP2 and push P2s into P3 and P3s into P4

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by J Jay

If both of you would indulge my penchant for devil's advocate, what would you propose to get more privateers into LMP1? It's clear that simply forcing them out of LMP2 hasn't worked. If slowing down the factory cars is not an option then what else could be done to entice more teams to take part in the top class?

For what my $.02 is worth, I don't think you CAN make for more privateers into LMP1 cars. They are much too expensive, and all the spec LMP2 cars are gonna do is drive a lot of their runners into GT cars. If the ACO had any sense IMO they'd backpedal on the 2017 P2 rules and keep them exactly as they are now, because its working.

[Deleted]

If ACO had sense they'd not only axe all of the 2017 LMP2 nonsense, but also re-establish the LMP1 Privateer market by reallowing them into regional series. The structure didn't fall to its face because the factory cars got too far ahead, they were similarly ahead in the diesel days, it succumbed because they didn't have any other options than that.

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If ACO had sense they'd not only axe all of the 2017 LMP2 nonsense, but also re-establish the LMP1 Privateer market by reallowing them into regional series.

LMP1 cars are much too expensive for regional series. You'd invariably either get nothing or get the one or two really stupid rich teams which then run riot over the rest of the series.

IMO, LMP2 in the WEC, ELMS and AsLMS should be IMSA's DPi, but with open tires, allowing V12 engines and dumping both the chassis builder restrictions and the restrictions on what bodywork can be changed. That would be a true privateer racer class, slower than P1s but still very quick.